Can Bellator overtake the UFC? - Page 2 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not saying it'll happen overnight, it would be a long term things that could happen.

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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 10:54 PM
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If Bellator entirely changes, then I agree, it could be better. If I entirely change I might get Jessica Alba to suck me off, but I have a feeling it's not gonna happen.

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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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I'm just saying it's possible. It may have a snowball's chance in hell but so did the UFC when the Fertitta's bought it.

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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 07:39 AM
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No. Bellator's entire business model leads to negativity in MMA. They don't promote their good cards, they do promote their bad cards. They don't have anywhere near the direction to be a threat. They are TNA.
I meant to mention that in previous post. I check twitter all the time and some of their cards just go unnoticed. I think the way they organise their events and the way they market them needs vast improvement.

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 10:28 AM
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They sure can, Scott Coker is really good at developing guys and more importantly having non-exclusive deals affords the fighters opportunities in GLORY and RIZIN. It also takes just one act of congress (Ali-Act) and all those UFC exclusive contracts go bye bye.

UFC = Record Companies
Bellator - ITunes


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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 11:11 AM
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They sure can, Scott Coker is really good at developing guys and more importantly having non-exclusive deals affords the fighters opportunities in GLORY and RIZIN. It also takes just one act of congress (Ali-Act) and all those UFC exclusive contracts go bye bye.

UFC = Record Companies
Bellator - ITunes
Promoting the Muhammad Ali Act as an MMA fan is like promoting safe spaces as a straight white male. Makes absolutely no sense and would be the worst thing that could ever happen to the sport.

Anyways, @Spite yeah Bellator doesn't put any promotion or attention into the cards with their actual fighters. Not only is it extremely hard to watch it in the UK (I mean it's not even randomly on VIVA, a music channel, anymore) but just comparing a couple of years ago to now is ridiculous. I didn't watch Bellator for long, but Eddie Alvarez, Douglas Lima, Marcos Galvao, Vitaly Minakov, Alexander Volkov, Iganov, Will Brooks, Joe Warren, Tiger, Koreshkov, Pitbull Brothers etc. were what made you want to tune in. They had their own stars. They had Michael Chandler, and you knew who he was. You knew he was a problem for opponents in the division and they marketed him as one of their best. In pro wrestling terms, they had AJ Styles and Samoa Joe. They could promote their own guys as stars and it resonated with me and others as fans.

Now, they don't do that. Outside of MVP, whom I'm struggling to even be a fan of anymore considering Coker is doing the most obvious can crushing attempt that I can remember ever in MMA, they aren't building their own names. There's no Hector Lombards anymore. The people you hear(d) about are Royce Gracie, Kimbo Slice, Ken Shamrock, Ben Henderson, Fedor Emelianenko, Matt Mitrione etc. I'm fine with a lot of this. I'm not saying I've not been interested in the prospective fights of all these people, even Kimbo Vs Dada. But these people shouldn't automatically trump the people that Bellator built up. Will Brooks left Bellator because he was sick of being promoted less than Royce Gracie in 2016.

Bellator is strikingly similar to TNA, which is ironic considering Tito, Rampage and King Mo were laughably abysmal in TNA. TNA Wrestling made it's reputation with great action, building up their home grown stars and developing something different and new. Then, it began bringing in guys like Kurt Angle, Sting, The Dudley Boyz, Jeff Hardy etc. This was okay. Great promotion, some great matches and storylines. But suddenly the old guard started to die off. They began focusing exclusively on using the ready made big names, and when WWE adjusted it's system, now WWE has been able to sign every single top wrestler in the world just about, and TNA is struggling to pick up whoever WWE casts off.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
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The big difference though is that Bellator isn't struggling financially. TNA has made some bad business decisions that has crippled them financially. Bellator MAY have been struggling before they got bought out by Viacom but now they are running under a good business man in Scott Coker.

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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 11:51 PM
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The big difference though is that Bellator isn't struggling financially. TNA has made some bad business decisions that has crippled them financially. Bellator MAY have been struggling before they got bought out by Viacom but now they are running under a good business man in Scott Coker.
But can you not put the pieces together?

TNA weren't in a bad fianancial position. If you were a TNA fan around the time Hogan came in, you felt like the company must certainly have been competing with WWE. The problem was that they focused all of their attention on these people who were clearly not wise investments for the future, and as a result it's bit them on the ass.

If TNA had put the money they put into signing Rob Van Dam, non Broken Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Val Venis for one night, The Nasty Boys (Well to be fair they punked Ken Shamrock lmao) and all the other nonsense people they brought in at the time, and instead signed Kevin Steen, non-Samoa Joe's Super Hero Sidekick Okada, Tanahashi, Chris Hero, Claudio Whatever Cesaro was called, Daniel Bryan and everyone else who really would have all been easily purchased for the same money those other people were going for...do you still believe TNA would be in financial ruin now?

You're calling Coker a good businessman, but let's just forget Strikeforce for a little second here. I believe short of I think Ben Henderson and potentially Rory MacDonald, who have Bellator signed that was a solid prospect for the future and a massive worthwhile addition under Scott Coker? What massive success have the future stars of the organisation had since he's been running it?

When Coker took over, I looked at his resume as I hadn't known too much about the behind the scenes when Strikeforce was around, but I was excited. Now? I find it hard to watch Bellator. This is coming from a guy who even fking loved Fight Master. I really really liked Bellator, but now I'd trade it for an LFA card any night of the week. I'd probably struggle to rank Bellator in my top 5 MMA promotions now with their accessibility, presentation, signings and direction.

I don't credit Scott Coker's business strategy or skills in Bellator at all. His only real successes were based on his previous relationships outside of the org. Unless his name is Brendan Rodgers then he doesn't get a free pass for that.

(I mean, is there ever someone who will understand all of my post? I mean I'm bringing TNA talk, refencing small career beginnings of the NWJP champion and then capping it all off by talking about Celtic )

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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Well remember as I said in the article, Bellator has beat the UFC head to head and I forced them to reschedule an event. Also the fact that they are beating the UFC in terms of ratings means that the UFC is having to scramble to beat them. Their strategy of signing people to keep them away from Bellator meant they perceived Bellator as a threat.

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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 12:14 AM
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Can you prove at all that the UFC is both signing people so Bellator can't sign them, or that the UFC feels like Bellator beating them in television ratings is a threat?

Previous to now, mixed martial arts had one cap; pay per view. It has been the be all and end all of what the height to achieve is. Bellator has shown time and time again that they are unable to run PPVs, and perhaps more importantly the UFC is able to consistently run them. You are comparing the UFC's television shows to Bellator's television shows, forgetting that you're comparing UFC's throwaways that weren't good enough for PPV to the absolute best Bellator are able to muster.

If the UFC really intends on going down it's new route, I'd expect that to all change drastically.

As for signing people, I'm not seeing any massive fluctuations in the amount of people UFC is signing. Even more importantly, the UFC would be able to feature these fighters much easier by using Fight Pass to fund local organisations which are fully focused on being feeder orgs. If the UFC really felt a legitimate threat from Bellator in terms of signing new fighters, UFC could simply have companies like Victory, Titan, Cage Warriors or Pancrase communicate with them on when exclusive contracts are due to run out and would be able to sign whoever they pick and choose. They might already be doing that.

Bellator's only current competition towards the UFC right now is to provide fighters with bargaining ability. Bellator can afford to pay fighters respectively and this allows fighters to gain their market value. Bellator can help in increasing the market value by over spending, creating a president (is that word spelled differently) where the UFC has to pay fighters more to hang onto them. Currently the UFC has been refusing fighters like Matt Mitrione their demands for the sake of keeping their structure in place, but they also don't want to lose these fighters and Bellator has the opportunity to jump on them. With far less fighters getting paid, Bellator can afford to pay these guys much higher amounts (similar to Moraes or Angela Lee) because they would be some of their very limited stars.

What Bellator needs to do to continue forward is utilize these name value fighters, such as Josh Thompson, Tito Ortiz, Chael Sonnen, Ken Shamrock, Royce Gracie, Bobby Lashley, Ben Henderson, Rory McDonald and maybe with the exception of the latter two, bleed them for their reputation and let it spread to younger stars. With Douglas Lima main eventing over Tito Ortiz, that means something. That means Lima is the real deal, he's the star and the legitimate fighter. While Lima's hardly one of their young up and comers for the future, Rebny built him and the likes of Lombard and Alvarez up to be stars. He might be a shady dickbag but he did an excellent job of building homegrown talent and thus far Scott Coker has failed to build even a single fighter up.

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