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Old 11-19-2007, 01:51 AM   #71 (permalink)
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i think a history book will answer this question..
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:13 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by milkkid291
If Brazil has the best fighters, then tell me what happened to Gonzaga, Belfort, Wandy, and Shogun? Who did they all get beat by? An American fighter.

Gonzaga - Randy Couture
Belfot - Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz, Rady Couture
Wandy - Dan Henderson, Tito Ortiz, Mark Hunt
Shogun - Forrest Griffin


American fighters that beat them right there.
The people you listed have wins over Marvein eastman, quinton jackson, dan henderson, guy mezger, randleman, herring, etc. If you look at it that way it's pretty split.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:14 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by milkkid291
If Brazil has the best fighters, then tell me what happened to Gonzaga, Belfort, Wandy, and Shogun? Who did they all get beat by? An American fighter.

Gonzaga - Randy Couture
Belfot - Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz, Rady Couture
Wandy - Dan Henderson, Tito Ortiz, Mark Hunt
Shogun - Forrest Griffin


American fighters that beat them right there.
Mark Hunt is a Kiwi... i.e. from New Zealand.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:16 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Acoustic
Jeez, how did this thread turn so political?
Good question. I, for one, let myself get too riled up. I'm going to try and calm down now.

As for the war in Iraq not being about oil, the US has a pretty good track record of only invading if we have an interest in the country. If we don't have one, we usually sit by and do nothing, too. While we're not going to get all of our oil from Iraq, one of the principle reasons that we invaded was for "stability in the region" - which means "Keep the middle east settled down so we an enjoy cheap oil."

Let's face it, if it weren't for oil in the middle east, we'd let them all kill each other and live under oppression just the way that we usually let Africans and (to a slightly lesser extent) South Americans kill each other and live under oppression. It's a sad commentary, but I think it's true. Venezuela's oil is about the only thing we've ever paid attention to in South American, and in Central America, we only want to stop drugs, keep out commies, and build the occasional canal.

Now... I hereby promise not to talk any more politics here. Just UFC. Back on topic, two of the things that Brazil is most famous for are hot women and good fighters.

Last edited by Gluteal Cleft : 11-19-2007 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:40 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gluteal Cleft
Good question. I, for one, let myself get too riled up. I'm going to try and calm down now.

As for the war in Iraq not being about oil, the US has a pretty good track record of only invading if we have an interest in the country. If we don't have one, we usually sit by and do nothing, too. While we're not going to get all of our oil from Iraq, one of the principle reasons that we invaded was for "stability in the region" - which means "Keep the middle east settled down so we an enjoy cheap oil."

Let's face it, if it weren't for oil in the middle east, we'd let them all kill each other and live under oppression just the way that we usually let Africans and (to a slightly lesser extent) South Americans kill each other and live under oppression. It's a sad commentary, but I think it's true. Venezuela's oil is about the only thing we've ever paid attention to in South American, and in Central America, we only want to stop drugs, keep out commies, and build the occasional canal.

Now... I hereby promise not to talk any more politics here. Just UFC. Back on topic, two of the things that Brazil is most famous for are hot women and good fighters.
Here, here - just fighting talk from now on. And I mean that literally and not metaphorically!
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:54 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Risto
I suppose Chuck vs. Wanderlei will shed some more light to the original point of this thread.
OK, that's not fair. I still think the US is slightly ahead of Brazil, but Wandy is going to beat Chuck. I just can't let you base it on that fight! Thanks for getting back on topic though.
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Old 11-19-2007, 04:38 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by davidm724
OK, that's not fair. I still think the US is slightly ahead of Brazil, but Wandy is going to beat Chuck. I just can't let you base it on that fight! Thanks for getting back on topic though.
Oh yeah, hardly going to the definitive fight to put a definitive answer to the question, but I said it would "shed a little light" to the conversation. Seeing as Brazil and the US are coming up trumps in this debate (politics aside :-)) this is a pretty big one between the two nations and it's been years in the making.

BTW, Chuck's been my favourite MMA fighter since Royce Gracie called it a day in the UFC (his little 'comeback' against Huges was a farce). However, he might now be a spent force, since the whooping Rampgae gave him. Perhaps he started to believe his own pressa little too much and party accordingly. Falling asleep on Good Morning Texas etc. - not what you'd expect from a world class athlete.

I still hope he wallops Silva a gooden, but wouldn't put my own money against it. Such is MMA.
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Old 11-19-2007, 08:01 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Risto
Indeed mate, indeed... this is an MMA forum. All I did was make a throw-away comment about not being a huge fan of the US, while acknowledging that they have the best MMA fighters.

The next thing I know a bunch of flag-wavers have declared armageddon on my ass. I'll just stick to pure MMA posting now and will limit my opinions to MMA. Just to make sure I don't upset the sensitive nationalistics amongst us. Heck, I won't even comment on the weather... Just in case...

:-)
Nobody said that you can't have an oppinion, if you would have actually read my post I said that these sorts of topics should be taken to the Off-Topic lounge where they belong.

It's not like your telling us anything new, that we haven't heard before. I've heard this same rap about 100 times pal. Exept the parts where you say my daddy this, and my daddy that, jeez unough about your father already, nobody cares where he works, if he flies planes or if he's friggin James Bond.
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:09 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milkkid291
I'm not going to nitpick at your post, because I could occupy myself for days on why you are wrong, but here in an example. Why we aren't in Iraq for oil.


Iraq exports 1.5 million barrels of oil per day.
U.S. imports 13.15 million barrels of oil per day.

Lets do some simple math and find out the percentage of oil U.S. would get from Iraq IF it took all 1.5 million barrels of oil everyday.

1.5/13.15 = .114 with a whole bunch of number after.

So IF the United States took every barrel of oil Iraq exported, It would account for 11.4% of U.S. total oil import. Funny thing is, what 2 countries are Iraq's top buyer of Iraq's oil? France and Russia. The two countries that Don't want us in Iraq.

So, I don't know the exact amount of barrels of oil the U.S. gets from Iraq, but it would be way less that 5% because France and Russia take up most of Iraq's oil exports.

My point is, if it's all about the oil, why didn't we invade Saudi Arabia that exports 8.554 million barrels of oil a day?

Sure as hell would have saved us americans a lot more money. (sarcasm for the people who don't understand it)



Source https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...ook/index.html
Don't you just love it when acoustic gets his treat.

Does your source account for the fact that Iraq is located above the 3rd largest proven oil reserve in the world? Does it account for the fact that the reason oil production in Iraq is so low is due to a broken infrastructure brought on by years of economic sanctions followed by complete military devastation? It's not that there's no oil there; it's just that the US was having trouble getting the amount desired at the price required.

Also, Iraq was invaded for its strategic position in the middle east. We've had the middle east militarily surrounded for years (one of Bin Laden't biggest bitching points), with military bases and thousands upon thousands of troops in countries like Italy, Turkey, as well as aircraft carriers patrolling the seas from below. Arms sales and 'diplomacy' with countries like Pakistan and India (we're funding both sides of their inevitable war) and Israel among many others are part of the strategy.

As for Saudi Arabia specifically, they, like China, are so heavily invested in US economic infrastructure that to anger them is to destroy the US itself. For an example of the potential harm, check the US stock performance last week. A single Chinese politician mentioned the notion of diversifying their currency reserves (less US dollars), and US stocks took another plunge in addition to the domestic issues already being dealt with. That's one of the reasons why the US smiles and shakes hands with leaders of an abusive monarchy while simultaneously killing in the name of freedom and democracy. Globalization has destroyed US sovereignty.

There have been a few OPEC member countries that have suggested the OPEC exchange leave the American dollar for the Euro. Can you guess which ones? If you guessed Venezuala, Iran, and Iraq, you win some sort of prize. Is it a coincidence that these countries find themselves in the 'Axis of Evil' whereas 'friendly' countries like Saudi Arabia get
the VIP treatment? Probably not.

The problem is, all this is necessary until the American people (I'm one of them) as a whole learn to moderate their lifestyles. All the things we bitch about, from outsourcing, illegal immigration, social security and economic weakening, and 'wars for oil' stem from our own insatiable appetites for everything, from cars that parallel park themselves to $3 gallons of pickles. It can't last forever, even if we subjugate every last people and resource on this planet. China couldn't do it. Rome couldn't do it. Britain, France, Portugal, Holland, Germany, and Russia couldn't do it. Is America really going to be the exception?

(Rants are awesome)
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Last edited by jasvll : 11-19-2007 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 11-19-2007, 12:24 PM   #80 (permalink)
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the US and Brazil both are pretty close IMO. although i still think there are more (in quantity) quality US fighters than Brazilian fighters, it is defintly arguable for both.
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