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Old 08-18-2008, 10:41 PM   #91 (permalink)
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If BJ gets tired thats his own fault, his supposedly undisputed TDD hasn't and won't help him vs GSP.
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:44 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Ironman no one has dominanted the LW divison either. That's why there are so many contenders. Sherk and BJ both have fought in a combined 5 title fights since 06. And that is counting there fight for both of them. BJ has fought 2 guys Stevenson and Sherk. Sherk has fought 3 Florian, Franca and BJ.

I'm not saying the LW divison isn't good I'm just saying the same reason there are a ton of contenders at 205 is the same reason their are a ton at 155. No one playing the role of Anderson/GSP and beating on all the contenders.
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Old 08-18-2008, 11:09 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Ironman no one has dominanted the LW divison either. That's why there are so many contenders. Sherk and BJ both have fought in a combined 5 title fights since 06. And that is counting there fight for both of them. BJ has fought 2 guys Stevenson and Sherk. Sherk has fought 3 Florian, Franca and BJ.

I'm not saying the LW divison isn't good I'm just saying the same reason there are a ton of contenders at 205 is the same reason their are a ton at 155. No one playing the role of Anderson/GSP and beating on all the contenders.
I definitely agree with that.

The difference between 205 and 155 is that noone in the 205 division is really on top of the mountain at all, noone is a clear contender.

I tend to think that Florian is a pretty clear contender at 155.

Still, like I said, I agree with you.
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Old 08-18-2008, 11:39 PM   #94 (permalink)
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That's fine. I'm pretty sure that he's been taken down alot more times, and if we include the beginning of his career, that's definitely true.

In terms of precentage, that'd be an interesting stat. BJ has stuffed alot of takedowns.

Still, if Couture is having trouble with BJ, that's saying something serious. I don't think he would have said that about Chuck.


Also, Chuck can't defend the Greco clinch the way that BJ can. BJ can reverse it alot better to.



I think there are plenty of guys who could make an interesting fight with BJ. Do I necessarily think that guys will beat him? Not really. But I think there are competitive, interesting fights.

Anyone who doesn't believe there's competition in the 155 pound division is delusional. There are plenty of guys who give interesting matchups with Penn.

When there's a dominant champion, that doesn't mean the division is competitive. Sherk was a dominant champion before him (though only for a little while) and it was still a competitive division.



Sure, because the champ isn't dominant. That doesn't mean the division is good.
Well first you have to wake Randy up before he could say anything. One unique form of TDD is the KO which Liddell has almost perfected.



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I definitely agree with that.

The difference between 205 and 155 is that noone in the 205 division is really on top of the mountain at all, noone is a clear contender.

I tend to think that Florian is a pretty clear contender at 155.

Still, like I said, I agree with you.

I actually want to see Florian/T. Griffin for a title shot. I don't think Kenny can handle him like he did Heurta and therefore is screwed. Also Ironman you said earlier Penn fought great grapplers in Stevenson and Sherk, problem is they both tried to stand trade with BJ and saw how far that got them. I watched the Sherk and was amazed and bemused by his game plan of striking with guy with such great reach. I felt had Sean shot in for the TD he could have won it.
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:13 AM   #95 (permalink)
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Well first you have to wake Randy up before he could say anything. One unique form of TDD is the KO which Liddell has almost perfected.
Fair enough, but you say that like B.J. has never knocked a guy out.

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I actually want to see Florian/T. Griffin for a title shot. I don't think Kenny can handle him like he did Heurta and therefore is screwed. Also Ironman you said earlier Penn fought great grapplers in Stevenson and Sherk, problem is they both tried to stand trade with BJ and saw how far that got them. I watched the Sherk and was amazed and bemused by his game plan of striking with guy with such great reach. I felt had Sean shot in for the TD he could have won it.
Sherk shot a few times. He had respect for B.J.'s takedown defense, but not enough for his striking (which was pretty stupid).

Stevenson got choked out pretty easily, even if B.J. opened that submission up with some punishment.

As for Florian vs. Griffin, I think that it's a pretty easy fight for Florian, though I have alot of respect for Griffin and I think that his explosiveness could make it exciting.

Still, Florian has better submission skills than anyone Griffin has fought (yes, better than Marcus Aurelio), and he has better standup than Griffin. It's a pick-your-poison situation.
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:37 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Fair enough, but you say that like B.J. has never knocked a guy out.
Who did he KO last, I honestly cannot remember the last guy he beat by KO or TKO.



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Sherk shot a few times. He had respect for B.J.'s takedown defense, but not enough for his striking (which was pretty stupid).
Totally agree, I was super pissed he wasn't trying for the TD.
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Stevenson got choked out pretty easily, even if B.J. opened that submission up with some punishment.
I don't think Joe had a shot but striking? I mean come on.

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As for Florian vs. Griffin, I think that it's a pretty easy fight for Florian, though I have alot of respect for Griffin and I think that his explosiveness could make it exciting.

Still, Florian has better submission skills than anyone Griffin has fought (yes, better than Marcus Aurelio), and he has better standup than Griffin. It's a pick-your-poison situation.
I tend to disagree simply b/c I think Griffin has beaten better submissin fighters in Aurelio and Tavares that coupled with Randy in his corner equals a dangerous guy, IMHO.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:13 AM   #97 (permalink)
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Who did he KO last, I honestly cannot remember the last guy he beat by KO or TKO.
That would be Sean Sherk.

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Totally agree, I was super pissed he wasn't trying for the TD.
In fairness, he did shoot a few times early in the fight, and he got stuffed really badly. I think BJ expected him to shoot more, but he did a terrible job setting it up.

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I don't think Joe had a shot but striking? I mean come on.
I don't understand this statement.

B.J. whupped his ass everywhere, and I totally counted Joe out of this one beforehand.


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I tend to disagree simply b/c I think Griffin has beaten better submissin fighters in Aurelio and Tavares that coupled with Randy in his corner equals a dangerous guy, IMHO.
Neither of those guys are as good on the ground as BJ. Neither are world champions.

Aurelio's good, but even he'd tell you that BJ is better on the ground. As would, I'm fairly sure, Tavares. Neither of those guys are sterling submission fighters, though they are good.

Randy is a great cornerman, and they could have a good gameplan going into that fight, but the stuff that Tyson got away with in the Guida fight will not work with BJ.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:30 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Perfectly aware that I'm going to get a backlash for this, and most answers will be signed with a hint of Jackass, I'm genuinely curious.
Why is BJ thought to be such an imposing force. One of the biggest arguments people make when someone says Anderson Silva has four losses on his record so he can't be the best p4p, yet BJ has 4 losses. He's also inconsistent, yet another fighter that everyone says "We'll see which BJ shows up". And he felt he needed to retreat to 155 to be champion rather than toughing it out in the division he clearly wants to be in.
So... what's the big deal with this guy? Seriously?
im with you on this one, i dont see whats so special about him. all i know is that if he fights GSP, he's just gonna get womped on... and yes it WILL be a different fight then the first one.
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:30 AM   #99 (permalink)
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im with you on this one, i dont see whats so special about him. all i know is that if he fights GSP, he's just gonna get womped on... and yes it WILL be a different fight then the first one.
I hope you're joking. BJ Penn is the definition of the word "prodigy". The guy barely even had to try to become WW champ, and you don't see what the big deal about him is?
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Old 08-19-2008, 06:02 PM   #100 (permalink)
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I really consider BJs turn around fight to be the Pulver fight. Before that he had all the awesome skills but just didnt train hard enough for a fight. Ever since he got his ass in the gym for the pulver fight he has showed us all the real BJ Penn.

How many times has he been taken down since the Pulver Fight? I am not 100% sure but I think the answer is 0 times.

As for Tyson Griffin vs Ken Flo. You may be right that Ken FLos subs are better than opponents before hand, but I do not think that they are good enough to finish Griffin. The guy may have the best sub def in the division. He has the biggest most powerful legs and absolutely no neck. He can slip out of anything and has proved that many times. I think the only way Ken Flo wins this fight is by decision which he may do.
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