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View Poll Results: Was Brock Lesnar gassed after his three round domination of Heath Herring?
Yes 10 11.76%
No 64 75.29%
Dont know 11 12.94%
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post #21 of 61 (permalink) Old 09-29-2008, 05:35 PM
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Age is progressively going against him, that much is evident, but there's still nothing to incite that his cardio has drifted towards mediocrity. It's very possible, but this is the same Randy Couture that has had great cardio throughout his entire career (in his late 30's/early 40's), and only seems to be sharper with age. I could be very wrong here, there are many intangibles that come with a year of inactivity, especially for anyone at his age, but it's doubtful.
If anyone in this fight gasses, it'll be Couture. He's the one whose going to have a huge guy on top of him the whole time. I bet it doesn't come down to that though.

If they were jogging laps,.. Brock is now at an extrieme disadvantage. Randy might be able to jog more laps.
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post #22 of 61 (permalink) Old 09-29-2008, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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I am interested to see how a few factors play into Randy's cardio...

Age... Time off... and Lesnar's size

Sure Brock weights in at around the same weight as Big Timmeh, but he also rehydrates up from there a significant ammount of weight. Mike Goldberg is the one who said Brock fought at 280.

But the big thing is, weight isnt the only thing to take into account in his opponent. The force behind that weight is just as important, with Lesnars strength, plus wrestling skill I am just guessing clinching / grappling with Lesnar would be more tiring that even a 280 lb Timmeh
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post #23 of 61 (permalink) Old 09-29-2008, 05:48 PM
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If anyone in this fight gasses, it'll be Couture. He's the one whose going to have a huge guy on top of him the whole time. I bet it doesn't come down to that though.

If they were jogging laps,.. Brock is now at an extrieme disadvantage. Randy might be able to jog more laps.

Let's not jump the gun now, this fight goes in the clinch it's Randy's world. There's absolutely no way Brock will intercede with strength and size to counter Randy in that department, if the fight hits the canvas which I assume it will at some point.

While everyone's bringing up Randy's age and inactivity into the equation, Brock's size gives him negative connotations as well. I'm sure his conditioning is up to snuff, refining his tools at a great camp with marquee trainers around him constantly guiding him into the right direction. But that doesn't equate to superiority in cardio by any means.

Suizida tried to tell me that Jardine's Techno viking monkey style was too much for Vera's overhyped skills but i was to busy nuthugging to listen to 'the truth'
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post #24 of 61 (permalink) Old 09-29-2008, 06:28 PM
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Let's not jump the gun now, this fight goes in the clinch it's Randy's world. There's absolutely no way Brock will intercede with strength and size to counter Randy in that department, if the fight hits the canvas which I assume it will at some point.

While everyone's bringing up Randy's age and inactivity into the equation, Brock's size gives him negative connotations as well. I'm sure his conditioning is up to snuff, refining his tools at a great camp with marquee trainers around him constantly guiding him into the right direction. But that doesn't equate to superiority in cardio by any means.
You lost me a bit. If it goes to the ground, Brock will be ontop of Randy. If it gets to standing in the clinch, Brock will indeed use his strength/size/speed to take advantage of the situation.

Like I said before, if it were running laps Randys in good shape. Its an MMA match though, and Randy is going to be the one carrying all that extra weight of Brocks much of the time.
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post #25 of 61 (permalink) Old 09-29-2008, 07:28 PM
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Brock looked fresh in round 3.

hell he looked like with a 5 min break he could have done it again.
well against randy he could very well have to do 2/3 of that time again with only two more 1 minute breaks.

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Let's not jump the gun now, this fight goes in the clinch it's Randy's world. There's absolutely no way Brock will intercede with strength and size to counter Randy in that department, if the fight hits the canvas which I assume it will at some point.
Yeah, exactly. It seems like some people don't understand the way Randy uses the greco clinch to an extent no other HW I can think of is able to. They think Brock's sheer size and strength will simply allow him to pick Randy up from any position and put him down on his back.

I strongly disagree. There is a whole separate style of fighting to clinching/dirty boxing and I think we will see Randy come in with a gameplan to keep the fight in this area where his skill will nullify Brock's size and strength. He will deliver strikes from inside the clinch and Brock will not have an answer except to try and use sheer strength to make up for his lack of skill, and thus exert himself even more.

After three or four rounds of this Brock WILL be tired and the odds will be a little more even. By the fifth Randy will still be the fresher, delivering strikes and controlling where the fight takes place. Brock shots will be moot by then and I see Randy winning via decision.

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post #26 of 61 (permalink) Old 09-29-2008, 07:37 PM
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well against randy he could very well have to do 2/3 of that time again with only two more 1 minute breaks.



Yeah, exactly. It seems like some people don't understand the way Randy uses the greco clinch to an extent no other HW I can think of is able to. They think Brock's sheer size and strength will simply allow him to pick Randy up from any position and put him down on his back.

I strongly disagree. There is a whole separate style of fighting to clinching/dirty boxing and I think we will see Randy come in with a gameplan to keep the fight in this area where his skill will nullify Brock's size and strength. He will deliver strikes from inside the clinch and Brock will not have an answer except to try and use sheer strength to make up for his lack of skill, and thus exert himself even more.

After three or four rounds of this Brock WILL be tired and the odds will be a little more even. By the fifth Randy will still be the fresher, delivering strikes and controlling where the fight takes place. Brock shots will be moot by then and I see Randy winning via decision.
yeah but he'll have cardiovascularly prepared for a 5 round fight

You train different for different amounts of rounds.
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post #27 of 61 (permalink) Old 09-29-2008, 07:38 PM
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How is it excellent cplmac? What did he do to prove it was excellent?
He spent 3 full rounds in dominant position trying to do damage and when the fight was over he didn't seem like he was struggling to stand like so many other fighters do. Now, I'm not saying he was busy like Guida or some of the other non-stop pace pushers but for a fighter carrying his weight and really for the HW division in general I thought his cardio looked very good. I'm willing to concede excellent for very good in the spirit of compromise...
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post #28 of 61 (permalink) Old 09-29-2008, 07:39 PM
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yeah but he'll have cardiovascularly prepared for a 5 round fight
Not all rounds are equal. He won't have a training partner with Randy's clinch skill. He'll be prepared for five rounds with the guys he happens to train with, sure. He will not be prepared for five rounds with a guy who can take his advantages away and keep him from riding them the whole time.

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post #29 of 61 (permalink) Old 09-29-2008, 07:41 PM
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Not all rounds are equal. He won't have a training partner with Randy's clinch skill. He'll be prepared for five rounds with the guys he happens to train with, sure. He will not be prepared for five rounds with a guy who can take his advantages away and keep him from riding them the whole time.
actually that's 80% wrong.

he'll be training with fresh guys every round in his sparing.

and where you really prepare your cardio isn't really there either. It's in your bag and HIIT training.
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post #30 of 61 (permalink) Old 09-29-2008, 07:43 PM
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wait a minute..you dont think that if randy gets brock in the clinch, brock wont be able to use his massive size and strength advantage to pick up Randy and power bomb him through the mat? thats just nonsense. Brock Wins this one by power bomb. God i hope i see the F-5, that would be so sweet.
But in all seriousness i dont think brock has any Cardio issues, and until i see him gas in a fight, then ill have no reason to question his cardio.

????
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