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Old 10-08-2008, 01:02 AM   #51 (permalink)
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I still think it is crazy that people think Gonzaga would demolish Lesnar. People just love to hate on him. They keep going to the inexperience card or the "there are other big wrestlers" but it doesn change the fact that Lesnar is one of the most athletic 280 pound men on the planet. People bring up all of these rules and they dont realize there are exceptions to every rule and Lesnar is an exception to the inexperienced people cant beat top tier fighters rule. Mir said Lesnar has a very bright future in mma and he fought the guy. Herring said he fought bigger and stronger wrestlers than Brock so he wouldn be a problem and he was very wrong. That is what happens to those who underestimate him.
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:31 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lpbigd4444 View Post
They keep going to the inexperience card or the "there are other big wrestlers" but it doesn change the fact that Lesnar is one of the most athletic 280 pound men on the planet.
If athleticism trumped skill on a consistent basis Melvin Guillard would be LW champion of the UFC. It doesn't. Remember Lesnar vs Mir?
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:39 AM   #53 (permalink)
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If athleticism trumped skill on a consistent basis Melvin Guillard would be LW champion of the UFC. It doesn't. Remember Lesnar vs Mir?
I know and after the fight Mir said that he had underestimated Lesnar and that Lesnar definitely had a great career ahead of him. IMO if Mir says it then its prob true cuz who knows better than the guy who fought him. Besides you guys must think Brock is retarded. You all assume he wont learn from his mistaks and that any good submission guy will automatically beat him and that is ridiculous.

Sorry about the double post but i forgot to add that at 205 everyone is about the same size. In heavyweight there is a bigger range of weights than any other division and if Lesnar is the most athletic guy and at least 15 pounds heavier (in most cases even more than that) than the other fighters it makes for a deadly combination.
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:45 AM   #54 (permalink)
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I know and after the fight Mir said that he had underestimated Lesnar and that Lesnar definitely had a great career ahead of him. IMO if Mir says it then its prob true cuz who knows better than the guy who fought him.
That was really sweet of him, wasn't it? I'm still not sure how it proves that his athleticism would trump Gonzaga's skill if they fight.

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Besides you guys must think Brock is retarded. You all assume he wont learn from his mistaks and that any good submission guy will automatically beat him and that is ridiculous.
Any good submission guy? I thought we were talking about Gonzaga. Is he sort of the "good submission guy" everyman now?
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:55 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Saying herring is a good striker cause he landed one kick on nog is excessive. Jake O'Brian did basically the same thing to herring that lesnar did, minus some of the gnp. Herring wasn't able to land hardly any shots on O'Brian.
Well I guess I have an excessive opinion. You know, my mom told me to remember something when I was a boy because it would apply to my life later down the line. She said "Son, I have an excessive box. But its my box and I like it." Well mystery solved because that totally applies here because I think Herring is a good striker and you think that's excessive. Thanks mom!
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:14 AM   #56 (permalink)
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You all assume he wont learn from his mistaks and that any good submission guy will automatically beat him and that is ridiculous.
Jiu Jitsu is not something that you can train for 6 months in and then expect to hang on the ground with some of the top guys in the world. If his fight goes to the ground with guys like Werdum, Nog, Gonzaga, Mir(again) he is going to get caught. You could see it in the Herring fight, he just does not know what to do when he is on top except throw some donkey kong punches every once in a while. Herring is no where near the caliber of ground fighters as those other guys, if it was them in that position they would have ripped some tendons no doubt. Brock is a beast and you cant write him off in any fight, but this would be the worst matchup for him ever. I dont think he would be able to handle the transitions and sweeps, he would either get submitted or thrown to his back where I bet he will be really f^cked.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:29 AM   #57 (permalink)
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I think Gabe is definitely capable of beating Lesnar.

Gonzaga has better striking, and should take the fight if they stay on their feet. I think when they're on the feet Lesnar needs to really push the pace, throw hard, and use his strength to push Gabe around.

Brock Lesnar has a size and strength advantage, but Gonzaga is a pretty big guy, big enough to neutralize this to some degree, though not entirely.

If Lesnar tries to take the fight to the ground to bully Gonzaga, obviously he needs to be VERY careful of Gabriel's submission's. If he isn't, eventually he will get caught.

It all depends on what Lesnar evaluates as the biggest threat, and how he thinks his skills match up with Gonzaga's. Whether he feels that Gabe's submissions are the biggest risk, or his strikes are.

If he tries to stand with Gonzaga, and doesn't like what he experiences, as a wrestler, taking the fight to the ground will be instinctual.

An interesting fight if it were to come about. We'll see how Lesnar fairs against Couture.
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Old 10-08-2008, 07:51 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Its nice to see more and more Brock haters what does the guy have to do to get any respect. The ufc can say Brock is gonna fight Bugs Bunny and 90 percent of most people are gonna say uhhhh Bugs Bunny is better at this better that. Again Brock in IMO will over power GG also. Brock could Kill Couture, Nog, Fedor and still would get no credit. There would just be more excuse why he won.

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Actually the answer is Yes. Heath Herring has a decent striking game he just didn't get to show it because Brock delivered the most one sided decision beatings in MMA history. It may be THE most one sided. Herring almost KOd Nog with a head kick. Gonzaga would do well to try and submit Lesnar but I think Brock would just spank the shit out of him too.
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Old 10-08-2008, 09:04 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Well I guess I have an excessive opinion. You know, my mom told me to remember something when I was a boy because it would apply to my life later down the line. She said "Son, I have an excessive box. But its my box and I like it." Well mystery solved because that totally applies here because I think Herring is a good striker and you think that's excessive. Thanks mom!
Ok, you were able to waste a bunch of words saying that Herring has good striking because he landed one kick on nog. Good job.

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Its nice to see more and more Brock haters what does the guy have to do to get any respect. The ufc can say Brock is gonna fight Bugs Bunny and 90 percent of most people are gonna say uhhhh Bugs Bunny is better at this better that. Again Brock in IMO will over power GG also. Brock could Kill Couture, Nog, Fedor and still would get no credit. There would just be more excuse why he won.
He has 1 win in the ufc against someone that sucks against wrestlers. The question should be what has Brock done to get all this he's the greatest HW right now?
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Old 10-08-2008, 10:16 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Let me state this right off the bat. I do not think that Brock Lesnar is the greatest heavyweight in the world. He just doesn't have the tools right now. Does he have the athletic ability to become the best in the world? Yes. There is not a single other fighter in his weight class with his kind of athletic ability but this post is mostly going to be about Gabriel Gonzaga.

Besides a fading Cro Cop who has Gabriel beat to have this reputation as a beast? Justin McCully? Brandon Lee Hinkle? Fabiano Scherner? Carmelo Marrero? He's lost to the good fighters - in their primes - that he has fought. Werdum twice and Randy once. Both of whom manhandled and tkoed him. Neither of whom possess the strength or speed of the aforementioned Lesnar. He has never submitted any top bjj in mma. In fact his only bjj victories have come over guys who have a very weak ground game. So where exactly do these sentiments that he is a better bjj guy than Nogueira come from? I might not like Nogueira's striking ability but I won't talk shit about his bjj.

Okay let's break down his skills: his hands are slow. They just are. He is not at all a quick heavyweight. His leg kicks are surprisingly good. I will give him that. He has no takedown defense what so ever. Randy exposed him big on that one. His bjj is high quality but not to the extent that most claim. He is not the best in the ufc. Amongst heavyweights Mir, Nogueira, and Werdum are all better bjj guys. And he has shown consistently that he does not possess any great heart. All three of his losses have come from being manhandled and GNPed. He just doesn't know what to do when an opponent does that.

This is what makes me think he will lose to Lesnar. It's the worst match up for him. It's a man who is strong enough to manhandle him who can deliver some of the most devastating punches I've ever seen. Love or hate Lesnar that right hand against Herring showed a ridiculous level of power. Gonzaga doesn't have Mir's heart. I don't think he will pull through the hail of GnP strikes and catch a submission. He never has done that and I don't expect that to change.

I'm not saying it's not possible for him to win but I would put my money on Brock for this one. Probably by way of first or second round TKO.

That's juts my objective opinion of the man's skill set.
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