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Old 10-09-2008, 01:12 AM   #1 (permalink)
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The Truth About Frank Mir Hate!

Now I've been a Frank Mir fan since his sick inverted keylock submission win over Pete Williams at UFC 36. I say this because i fully expect to catch a ridiculous amount of shit for picking him over Nog and i want to seperate myself from those who unintelligibly jumped on the Mir bandwagon after seeing him in action for the first time against Lesnar.


After reading the hundred or so threads on this and various other mma forums regarding Mir and his upcoming title shot against Nog, i noticed alot of people discrediting him for ludicrous reasons that i feel obligated to dispute. All Mir shit talk is like a broken record and i will address these arguments now.

1) "Mir got beat by Pe De Pano, blah blah."

A true statement yes. But Pe De Pano's name is thrown around on this site like its ******* Eddie Sanchez or something. This man is a BJJ black belt under some bad ass mother f*****, and has actually BEAT WERDUM IN ADCC, thats right ladies. So this is far from the laughable loss it is made out to be. Also, this was Mir's return from the devestating motorcycle accident.


2) "Mir has no gas tank or stand up"

This would be an accurate statement if it were 2006. But the reality is we havent seen Mir's cardio or striking in action for over a few minutes since his decision win over Dan Christison at UFC 61. Granted the Nog fight will answer alot of questions about this topic, it is still ignorant and uninformed to make these inferences based on fights that happened over 2 years ago.

3.) "Nog is better than Mir at every aspect of the game."

On paper yes. But I have a feeling that Nog is getting past his prime. All those blows to his face over his entire career are starting to have a detrimental effect on his speed and reaction time. An effect that was made clear in the Herring fight and more so in the Sylvia fight. We all know Tim wouldnt have pwned his face for three rounds before getting subbed if this were a few years ago. I want to stress that i'm not a Nog hater: I respect what the man has accomplished in the sport and FTW, Nog vs Henderson 2 is one of my favorite MMA fights of all time. All im sayin is...if anyone in the UFC HW division could sub him at this point in his career, its Frank Mir. And the validity of this argument is something that even Mir himself has made apparent:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/new...ig-nog-856701/

Mods...dont ban me for the sherdog link but its the only place i could find this interview where Mir clearly defines his position on the point i just stated.


So this aside, can anyone give me a LEGIT reason as to why Mir is consistantly dis-credited and ultimately over-looked as a serious contender in this fight, and even the HW division in general?

Last edited by N1™ : 10-10-2008 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Well the reason he catches so much crap is cuz he aint done much since his return. He lost to Pe De Pano which is fair enough, your reason is cool.

He beat Dan Christison (who cares) gets destroyed by Vera and then pulls off a couple submissions of possibly two of the worst HW fighters at submissions.

Id put ALOT of money on Nog beating Mir.
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judd Apatow View Post
Mods...dont ban me for the sherdog link but its the only place i could find this interview where Mir clearly defines his position on the point i just stated.

Its a youtube video, did you try youtube???
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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All I can say is do not focus on the past. Everyone has their own opinions on fighters. Just cheer your fighter on and take it easy.
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I think Mir is underrated too. Now we even have people discreditting his juijitsu simply because they dont like him. Its ridiculous.
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by screenamesuck View Post
Its a youtube video, did you try youtube???
i might be articulate behind the keyboard, but im not that observant otherwise....ha

and ive had a previous account banned for posting a sherdog link.
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:15 AM   #7 (permalink)
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It's not that Mir sucks, it's just that Nog is better plain and simple. This fight to me is EXTREMELY comparable to Fitch vs GSP. Fitch is one of my favorite fighters, but I just saw no way of him winning against GSP. He was just a worse version of GSP.

In this case, Mir is an even worse version of Nog since Nog's standup is a lot better than Mir's. I also wouldn't say Mir is the top guy to submit Nog, Werdum and maybe even Fedor might be higher, but Mir is up there yes. I respect Mir, he's a cool guy, but this just isn't happening. I'm sorry.
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:32 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Well to be fair, you didn't really give any reason as to why he shouldn't be discredited. I am not trying to bash on him or anything because he does have skills to keep him competetive in the division for right now.
I will give you his loss to Cruz, first fight coming back and against a guy with some pretty sick bjj credentials.
But to say it is ignorant to say he has no stand up or cardio because we havent seen him in a long fight for a while so we don't know what it is like, is ignorant. He has to prove to us that it has improved and from what I have seen it hasn't.
And maybe Nog has started to lose his touch, I don't think this is true but it is possible because it is unlike him to get caught by a headkick like he did against Herring. But the Sylvia fight was classic Nog. Take a beating and then pounce on a mistake for the win. And I would put up Werdum and Gonzaga ahead of Mir if anyone can indeed submit Nog.
I give the advantage of bjj, striking, cardio and most importantly heart to Nog. Even wrestling. So thats why I would discredit Mir, not because I am hating on him because I do think his comeback story is great, but it is not good enough to get past the 2nd best HW ever.
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Its cool you are speculating about Nog being over the hill, I think its a valid consideration going into any fight especially if a visit from Ben Franklin is depending on it. But I wouldn't depend on that one bit with Nog, not yet and not against Frank Mir. In the sport of MMA Nog has earned his reputation and I am going to need to see a little more then slower reflexes. For all we know his reflexes have slowed meanwhile he's has more octagon experience and he's more use to the American crowd. I mean he just subbed Tim Sylvia who was on a great role. I'll be happy for whoever wins this fight, I hope its a good one, it would be awesome if it were to turn into a BJJ war. In each and every scenario, I have Nog but thats only because it is the overwhelmingly logical pick on paper. But I'm not betting it because I'm rooting for Mir.
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judd Apatow View Post

1) "Mir got beat by Pe De Pano, blah blah."

A true statement yes. But Pe De Pano's name is thrown around on this site like its ******* Eddie Sanchez or something. This man is a BJJ black belt under some bad ass mother ****er, and has actually BEAT WERDUM IN ADCC, thats right ladies. So this is far from the laughable loss it is made out to be. Also, this was Mir's return from the devestating motorcycle accident.
This isn't submission grappling, this is MMA. Pe De Pano, is a very average mixed martial artist with great BJJ, whereas Nogueira has a well-rounded overall game and well adapted MMA-BJJ. Losing to Pe De Pano in MMA is like losing to Terry Fox in a soccer match, sure he's great at running, but there's more to soccer than JUST running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judd Apatow View Post
2) "Mir has no gas tank or stand up"

This would be an accurate statement if it were 2006. But the reality is we havent seen Mir's cardio or striking in action for over a few minutes since his decision win over Dan Christison at UFC 61. Granted the Nog fight will answer alot of questions about this topic, it is still ignorant and uninformed to make these inferences based on fights that happened over 2 years ago.
We may not have seen his cardio, but we've certainly seen his striking which is still awkward. He throws the most telegraphed kicks of any striker I've ever seen, and there's really no zip on them.
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