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Old 10-13-2008, 11:27 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dontazo View Post
alexander emelianenko will kill silva
Well I don't think they are actually fighting, so I don't know that he "will" kill him. But I understand your point. A mid level heavyweight like Alexander would not have a hard time using his size to dominate the smaller Silva. Don't get me wrong I don't think there is a middleweight in the world that can take Silva. I don't think there are very many LHW that can beat him, but at HW it's just not going to happen.
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Old 10-13-2008, 11:48 PM   #92 (permalink)
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I like Silva more every time I watch him fight, but I can't wait for someone to defeat him in the UFC. People like to latch onto a fighter, especially one that is on a good winning streak, and seem to believe they are unbeatable. Anderson Silva is a great fighter, but making him out to be able to beat every other fighter regardless of weight/size/skill is an insult to the other athletes.

In my opinion, the light heavyweight division will provide him much greater competition.
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Old 10-14-2008, 12:19 AM   #93 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xAmRiT View Post
Someone such as Gonzaga would destroy silva standing up simply because Silva wouldnt have seen the sort of power Gonzaga can offer as a result of his weight. Unless your telling me Rich franklin hits harder than a H/W such as Gonzaga............And also Arlovski would murder him, you need to gets of Anderson silva's nuts and realise that there are people who can beat him especially those at the heavier weight classes
He will get destroyed standing cause of the power?
You do know that silva will also be more powerful cause he put on extra muscle if he fought at hw. Since when is GG striking good enough to even hit silva with a good shot?
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:37 AM   #94 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Charles Lee Ray View Post
"Lighter weight classes have a much lower KO ratio than higher weight classes because of this."


Thats because you lose knockout power as the fighters get smaller and increase knockout power as the fighters get bigger. Hence why Silva would fail at HW. He would lose his KO power and be much more sccuptable to KOs being that he has never been hit by a 250 pound striker.
You people just don't get it, do you?

You don't LOSE KO power by going to a heavier division, you increase it. Silva is already an incredible KO artist, by going HW he will get even more KO power, not less.

So if a MW is capable of trouncing MWs, he will be even more powerful and fearsome at HW.

Now, for the size. Who are the top 3 HW by most rankings?

Fedor: 6'1'', 231 lbs
Big Nog: 6'3'', 241 lbs
Randy Couture: 6'1'', 225 lbs

Those aren't BIG Heavyweights by any means.
Anderson Silva at Heavyweight would probably fight at something like 6'2'' and 230 lbs. And he's not less skilled than those guys.

So any HW not named Fedor or Nogueira, that have demonstrated that can't be knocked out, will have a really hard time vs the best MMA striker.

Oh, and the worst argument you can make for it is "there are weight classes for a reason". A reason is not an argument.

Finally, to the guy who talked about Mayweather, well, the guy is small, 5'8'', 155 lbs, and despite his record he's not a KO specialist. It would be like talking about BJ Penn going to HW, not Anderson Silva.
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:43 AM   #95 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by valrond View Post
You people just don't get it, do you?

You don't LOSE KO power by going to a heavier division, you increase it. Silva is already an incredible KO artist, by going HW he will get even more KO power, not less.

So if a MW is capable of trouncing MWs, he will be even more powerful and fearsome at HW.
You're assuming he would be significantly bigger at HW. Since he already cuts from a HW weight (~215 IIRC) I doubt he'd have a lot more weight when he actually entered the octagon than he does now. Maybe ten pounds, and I don't think that would change his power much.
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:08 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Lee Ray View Post
"As discussed in previous posts being a heavyweight adds to your KO power, but doesn not increase your chin"


The bigger you are the more of a punch you can take. A 250 pound fighter will be able to absorb more punishment and take a greater punch than a 150 pound fighter. Its simple physics and genetics.
The physics and genetics involved in knocking someone out have nothing to do with how much they weigh. It has to do with the structure of the bones in their face and their neck.

Being bigger means you are more likely to have the characteristics that give a good chin. A wide jaw, thick neck (things that Cro Cop and Liddell, HW and LHW respectivly, don't have). Being a big man will not automatically give you these characteristics, but it is more likely.

But stop acting like someone who is 150 lbs can't gain weight (whether fat or muscle) and become 250 lbs. Do you think they will suddenly need to get hit on the chin harder to get knocked out?

That is ridiculous.

I gained 40lbs over the last two years, some muscle and some fat. Do you think I have a better chin now?

If Lesnar stopped working out for the next 5 years and lost 60lbs of muscle mass would he get knocked out more easily?

Give me a break.
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:24 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Apecity View Post
The physics and genetics involved in knocking someone out have nothing to do with how much they weigh. It has to do with the structure of the bones in their face and their neck.

Being bigger means you are more likely to have the characteristics that give a good chin. A wide jaw, thick neck (things that Cro Cop and Liddell, HW and LHW respectivly, don't have). Being a big man will not automatically give you these characteristics, but it is more likely.

But stop acting like someone who is 150 lbs can't gain weight (whether fat or muscle) and become 250 lbs. Do you think they will suddenly need to get hit on the chin harder to get knocked out?

That is ridiculous.

I gained 40lbs over the last two years, some muscle and some fat. Do you think I have a better chin now?

If Lesnar stopped working out for the next 5 years and lost 60lbs of muscle mass would he get knocked out more easily?

Give me a break.

OK now you are just being silly. Its clear I was talking about natural weight as I used the term "fighter" and not just man. Fighters are already in shape so guy's in the smaller weight classes won't have such a high levels of weight gain.


A guy who is naturally 150 won't get a better chin if ballons up to 250 from fat. Now a guy who is naturally 250 will have a better chin than a guy who is naturally 150.

If Kenny Florain and Nate Diaz gain a little muscle and a lot of fat and somehow manage to get up to 260 they won't have the chin of a Tim Sylvia or a Cabbage or Gonzaga or Kongo.

Likewise Silvas chin won't get up to the level of a 250+ fighter if gains weight either.
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:29 PM   #98 (permalink)
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"You don't LOSE KO power by going to a heavier division, you increase it. Silva is already an incredible KO artist, by going HW he will get even more KO power, not less.

So if a MW is capable of trouncing MWs, he will be even more powerful and fearsome at HW."


You lose overall KO power because you are not fighting the same guy's. Its a hell of a lot easier to KO a MW when you are a MW then it is to KO a HW when you are a natural MW. The power of a MW won't translate itself in the HW division.


You are actually comparing KOing a James Irvin or Nate Marquart to KOing a guy like Tim Sylvia or Heath Hearing?

Weight classes are in place for a reason.
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:40 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valrond View Post
You people just don't get it, do you?

You don't LOSE KO power by going to a heavier division, you increase it. Silva is already an incredible KO artist, by going HW he will get even more KO power, not less.

So if a MW is capable of trouncing MWs, he will be even more powerful and fearsome at HW.

Now, for the size. Who are the top 3 HW by most rankings?

Fedor: 6'1'', 231 lbs
Big Nog: 6'3'', 241 lbs
Randy Couture: 6'1'', 225 lbs

Those aren't BIG Heavyweights by any means.
Anderson Silva at Heavyweight would probably fight at something like 6'2'' and 230 lbs. And he's not less skilled than those guys.

So any HW not named Fedor or Nogueira, that have demonstrated that can't be knocked out, will have a really hard time vs the best MMA striker.

Oh, and the worst argument you can make for it is "there are weight classes for a reason". A reason is not an argument.

Finally, to the guy who talked about Mayweather, well, the guy is small, 5'8'', 155 lbs, and despite his record he's not a KO specialist. It would be like talking about BJ Penn going to HW, not Anderson Silva.
It's quite an assumption that Silva would come in at 230. Also whenever you gain muscle mass you slow down. Look at what happened to Kelly Pavlick. He was significantly slower at 166 than 160. Since you don't like the Mayweather reference what if Pavlick went to Heavyweight would he dominate? Let me ask you another question. If Travis Lutter could take down Silva. Why couldn't Couture or Lesnar. They are both quicker than Lutter and way better wrestlers. The bottom line about power is that Silva's power is impressive against other MWs and 1 bad LHW. Do you honestly think that Silva hits as hard as Arlovski or Sylvia? These other heavyweights have taken shots from these guys, so why wouldn't they be able to take the spider's punches?
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:49 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Lee Ray View Post
OK now you are just being silly. Its clear I was talking about natural weight as I used the term "fighter" and not just man. Fighters are already in shape so guy's in the smaller weight classes won't have such a high levels of weight gain.


A guy who is naturally 150 won't get a better chin if ballons up to 250 from fat. Now a guy who is naturally 250 will have a better chin than a guy who is naturally 150.

If Kenny Florain and Nate Diaz gain a little muscle and a lot of fat and somehow manage to get up to 260 they won't have the chin of a Tim Sylvia or a Cabbage or Gonzaga or Kongo.

Likewise Silvas chin won't get up to the level of a 250+ fighter if gains weight either.
You seem to be missing my point. I agree, Silva's chin won't change at all if he gains 50 lbs. Just like Lesnars chin won't change at all if he loses 50lbs.

The point is that a fighters chin is determined by factors other than the weight of their body. They are relativly unrelated in the sense that you are not gaurenteed a good chin as a HW, nor are you gaurenteed a bad chin because you are a LW.

Natural weight classes? Are you trying to say that Brock Lesnar is naturally 265 lbs? That dude is ripped as hell. If he didn't work out like mad for WWE (and probably do other things) he would most likely weigh in somewhere between 210 and 230 pounds.

And again, that is besides the point. Tim Sylvia doesn't have a great chin and he is someone who you would call (and I would agree) a natural heavyweight, in the sense that even if he lost all his muscle he is very tall and would have little chance of ever making 205.

My point is that even fighters who are small heavyweights, like Cro Cop and Couture, are just as likely to have weak chins as their "natural heavyweight" counterparts, like Tim Sylvia.

The whole arguement that A. Silva would do fine against guys at 205 (like Liddell or Couture at that weight) but would suddenly be unable to knockout someone like Tim Sylvia just doesn't make any sense.

Once again I will use the example of Bob Sapp and Hong Man Choi. I understand full well that they have little to no skill, but this arguement is no longer based on the skill of the fighter but their size. We have seen them both knocked out by men hundreds of pounds lighter than them. Literally hundreds of pounds lighter. The equivalent of BJ Penn knocking out Sylvia or Lesnar. Why did their superior size not grant them chins of steal?

I'm just still trying to figure out what it is that makes you think someone who naturally weighs more (cause height isn't the factor) can take a harder punch. We have seen through the examples I mentioned above that it is simply not true.
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