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Old 10-11-2008, 04:12 PM   #61 (permalink)
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O ok I miss understood your point. I thought you were saying since Jacare beat Gonzaga that Anderson could.
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Old 10-11-2008, 05:34 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Because his cardio and stand-up (aside from kicks) sucks?
Wow were to start. First off Gonzaga doesn't have shitty standup, just because it looked bad in the Werdum fight. rewatch the Randy and Cro Cop fight, his punches look very crisp when he gets to use them. The Werdum fight is an anomoly to me, because I have never seen anyone gass in 1 round (and FTR he was easily winning that fight till he gassesd). Oh and just to avoid future argument on that comment, yes he gassed he didn't get rocked. I remember telling my friend about 30 seconds into the second round (far before Werdum hit him) that Gonzaga is completely gassed.

Gonzaga would be a future champ if it wasn't for Nog, and even then I sometimes think he can beat Nog. Plus he is still young and is always improving. And so what if he got subbed my Jacare, Jarace is the only person I can remember ever subbing Marcelo Garcia (the best BJJ artist in the world except for maybe Rickson). Everyone gets subbed by Jarace at some point.

Also, you neglect the fact that Gonzaga has top 5 wrestling/tdd in the UFC HW division, an incredible chin, KO power in his hands, and the strongest kicks in all MMA. He will be the future of the HW division if he gets his cardio and head together (and if he looks anything like the McCully fight next fight then that will be a great start.)

Also people are severly overrating Anderson's BJJ, Blackbelts have their gaurds passed all the time, and while Silva does have very good BJJ, Gonzaga is about 2 leagues above Anderson in that level technically, not to mention strength wise.
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Old 10-11-2008, 06:24 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Oh and just to avoid future argument on that comment, yes he gassed he didn't get rocked. I remember telling my friend about 30 seconds into the second round (far before Werdum hit him) that Gonzaga is completely gassed.

Also, you neglect the fact that Gonzaga has top 5 wrestling/tdd in the UFC HW division, an incredible chin, KO power in his hands, and the strongest kicks in all MMA. He will be the future of the HW division if he gets his cardio and head together (and if he looks anything like the McCully fight next fight then that will be a great start.)
If you think Gonzaga gassed then you aren't paying attention. He was getting tagged by punches in round 1 and round 2 the only changes are that Werdum adjusts to the leg kicks and then he closes the distance and rocks him.

When a divison has 3 top fighters being top 5 in a bunch of things doesn't mean that much.

His chin isn't that good he's been finished 3 times. And he's going to have trouble being the future of the UFC HW divison when he has never shown any skills that would give him a chance against Werdum.
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Old 10-11-2008, 07:09 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Some of you guy's are clearly dillusional or blinded by the Anderson Silva hype. He wouldn't make it out of the first round with most of those guy's. He would get killed.


Facts:

-He loses his knock out power when he is fighting HWs. Its one thing to KO guy's who are 185 or 200 pounds. Its another thing to KO a guy who is 240, 250, 260 and are used to getting hit by guy's that big and strong.


-He loses his chin. Its one thing to have a good chin against a 185 pound or 200 pound guy but its a totally different beast taking a hard shot from a 240-260 pound striker.


-He loses his strength in the clinch. One of Silvas biggest strengths in his strength in the clinch. He loses that in the HW division. Do you honestly think he would be able to control those big monsters like Brock Lesner, Tim Sylvia, Cheick Kongo, ect in the clinch? Give me a break. Even a top notch Greco guy like Randy Couture would crush him.


-As for grappling, guy's like Nogiuera, Gonzaga, Werdum, ect would school him on the floor. Again, he is giving up too much size and strength.


Like it was said above, weight classes are in place for a reason.
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Old 10-11-2008, 08:15 PM   #65 (permalink)
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If you think Gonzaga gassed then you aren't paying attention. He was getting tagged by punches in round 1 and round 2 the only changes are that Werdum adjusts to the leg kicks and then he closes the distance and rocks him.

When a divison has 3 top fighters being top 5 in a bunch of things doesn't mean that much.

His chin isn't that good he's been finished 3 times. And he's going to have trouble being the future of the UFC HW divison when he has never shown any skills that would give him a chance against Werdum.
First I would like to say I am a giant Werdum fan (he is one of my favorite fighters) and think he is horribly underrated (some for example his wrestling is really underrated and his BJJ is probably better then Nog's. However your blinded by Werdums nuts to realize Gonzaga gassed because you don't want to admit Gonzaga was schooling him in the first round. And still that was not a good GG, becuase his punches were horrid, but they are usually very good (like in the Randy and Cro Cop fight.)

However if you still want to argue the gassing thing, how about I make a poll asking whether or not Gonzaga gassed, because I'm sure over 70 percent of the forum will agree with me.

His chin is great, because even though he's been finished, he hasn't been KO'ed and he has taken some really hard shots. He also does have very good wrestling, as he can take almost anyone down at will.

In both fights, Gonzaga was beating Werdum till he gassed. With cardio and heart, Gonzaga can beat Werdum, but without it I agree Werdum will forever beat him.

BTW though I do think Werdum will be champ after Nog subs Lesnar/Couture.
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Old 10-11-2008, 09:36 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Werdum was getting hit hard by kicks in round 1 and round 2. However in both rounds Werdum was hitting him hard with punches.

Gonzaga won round 1 but he didn't lose because he gassed he lost because he was only doing one thing well and couldn't handle Werdum's hands or clinch.

Gonzaga was still landing kicks in round 2 he looked exactly the same the only thing that changed was he got hit with a huge knee and then his hands dropped.

Also Gonzaga has a solid chin but it's not as good as Nogueira or Werdum who have two of the best chins in MMA.
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:08 PM   #67 (permalink)
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5. Cheick Kongo
(Kongo by TKO/KO R2. Cheick is way better standing + KO Power and actually has explosive take downs. Anderson Silva would get beat in the stand up and try to go for a take down after 10 minutes, that's when Kongo catches him. If not, he gets overwhelmed standing.)


Are you serious?? Way better standing? Are you sure you are thinking of the right fighters? Kongo has some of the worst footwork I have ever seen to be considered a kickboxer. He has the power to KO him, but technical wise Anderson rapes him all over the cage. I really don't think anyone has the technical skills that Silva posseses not even Machida.
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:52 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Are you serious?? Way better standing? Are you sure you are thinking of the right fighters? Kongo has some of the worst footwork I have ever seen to be considered a kickboxer. He has the power to KO him, but technical wise Anderson rapes him all over the cage. I really don't think anyone has the technical skills that Silva posseses not even Machida.
I wouldn't say Kongo's stand-up is better than Anderson's. But his footwork isn't 'terrible', watching the Crocop fight and even the Evensen fight it should be clear that this guy is not heavy on his feet. He doesn't fight flat footed, and he throws body kick up FAST.

I honestly think that Anderson would lose to most of the stand-up fighters in the heavyweight division. He would seem too small to be able to KO them, and while he would be the better striker, he wouldn't be able to work the clinch, and he would take some big shots. His ground game wouldn't work very well, because I wouldn't see him getting those guys to the ground.

Anderson would beat most of the BJJ guys imo (except Nog), they wouldn't pose a huge threat to him standing, and if Anderson could survive on his back, he could keep the distance and get a TKO or UD against them.
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:00 PM   #69 (permalink)
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I wouldn't say Kongo's stand-up is better than Anderson's. But his footwork isn't 'terrible', watching the Crocop fight and even the Evensen fight it should be clear that this guy is not heavy on his feet. He doesn't fight flat footed, and he throws body kick up FAST.
It was the Evensen fight where it caught my eye actually. I would say he seems very heavy on his feet, he just doesnt move that well. Not to mention his striking game now is holding his opponent against the cage for 3 rounds and utilizing dirty boxing every once in a while. His stand up is very overrated imo.
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:18 PM   #70 (permalink)
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It was the Evensen fight where it caught my eye actually. I would say he seems very heavy on his feet, he just doesnt move that well. Not to mention his striking game now is holding his opponent against the cage for 3 rounds and utilizing dirty boxing every once in a while. His stand up is very overrated imo.
Did you see the Crocop fight? He caught him with some nice body kicks, and he was pretty light on his feet. Same with pretty much all his fights. I don't really see where you get this 'heavy feet' thing, where abouts is it flat footed?
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