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View Poll Results: Who do you give the advantage to on the ground?

B.J Penn 63 57.27%
Georges St Pierre 47 42.73%
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-08-2008, 05:25 PM   #21 (permalink)
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No GSP doesn't have better MMA jiu-jitsu in fact his guard passing skills aren't really all that good.

Now BJ's skills are a bit overrated because he doesn't have any interest in submitting guys off his back he has said so. Now on top he might be the best in MMA but off his back he just doesn't even really try that hard to sub guys.
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Old 11-08-2008, 05:33 PM   #22 (permalink)
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BJ has a far better ground game then GSP
i think he has better elbow strikes and punches then GSP and his BJJ is far better also
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Old 11-08-2008, 05:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Bjj

BJ Penn has a slight advantage when it comes to BJJ (IMO), but as many others have said, I don't think GSP will have any problem controlling Penn on the ground. I also think that GSP will be very comfortable going for the take down. Penn most definatly has far more flexibilty than GSP and is also a more technical BJJ artist than Pierre - but since BJJ is only one facet of the ground game, I'd give the ground game as a whole to GSP.
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Old 11-08-2008, 05:52 PM   #24 (permalink)
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the trainers say GSP has a better ground game. How do they know that? Did they roll with BJ on the ground? I say they did not. So it's all irrelevant and just stupid to say something like that without a comparison. I give GSP lots of credit for his wrestling skills and would like to see it vs BJ TDD. This is going to be a great matchup and I really want to see which fighter has a better stand up. The heavy handed BJ Penn or the Quick atheletic GSP.
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Old 11-08-2008, 06:20 PM   #25 (permalink)
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GSP has better wrestling, is more explosive, and is stronger. But BJ has the best MMA BJJ in the world. No one can compare to his back control, and I would even say he has a better mount than GSP. His flexibility alos gives him a sizable advantage.
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Old 11-08-2008, 06:29 PM   #26 (permalink)
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This is a joke right?

Penn has great MMA BJJ. Most of his submissions are setup with strikes.

Also while GSP definitely has the better takedowns, BJ's control is just as good. And while BJ doesn't have any subs from his back, his guard is nearly impassable and he uses his BJJ to get back to his feet.
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Old 11-08-2008, 06:32 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbjd7 View Post
No GSP doesn't have better MMA jiu-jitsu in fact his guard passing skills aren't really all that good.

Now BJ's skills are a bit overrated because he doesn't have any interest in submitting guys off his back he has said so. Now on top he might be the best in MMA but off his back he just doesn't even really try that hard to sub guys.
BJ uses his guard to sweep and take the back. He's extremely good at both of those, especially taking the back.
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Old 11-08-2008, 08:29 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fedor>all View Post
There's an obvious counter to that argument, in the fact that BJ couldn't do anything with Georges inside his guard.



I love BJ, I really do. But the only dramatic improvements in his game (since losing to Hughes) have come in the form of better conditioning, and probably crisper boxing. He's always been a dangerous striker, and he's always been a phenomenal grappler, especially when he's on top. Once again, he's never been anywhere near as dangerous off his back in MMA as he is when he is on top.




Give me a break, BJ trains for every fight. He was simply outwrestled and controlled for rounds 2 and 3, by a much larger and naturally athletic opponent.




No one is saying he's the "Nogueira of MMA BJJ", way to blow it out of proportion. GSP has been able to outgrapple every single person he has faced in the octagon, except for Matt Hughes---a loss he avenged through drastic improvement in his ground game---and BJ, who also couldn't do anything with GSP on the ground.

Where has BJ improved? BJ is more or less the same fighter GSP fought the first time, with better boxing technique and better cardio (at 155, who knows at 170?). His ground game is great, as always (from the top position) but he's never been known for pulling-off subs from his back. I definitely think GSP has grown more since the two fighters last met, although they're both very complete fighters in their own rights.
You make alot of good points and you know what your talking about so I enjoy debating with you. I dont feel your biased at all on this topic and I will listen to every thing your saying.

But the thing about BJ not being a better fight now than he was the first time is a little off base. I agree with you the main thing he has worked on is his cardio, which is a HUGE part of fighting. HUUUUGGGGEEEE!! Everyone knows BJ is nearly impossible to beat in the first couple of rounds. Even when Hughes was at his best BJ clearly outclassed him in those first two rounds. And we saw Georges struggle against a fresh BJ in the first round. But once BJ got a little tired, GSP was able to use his stregnth and great cardio to bully BJ. That isnt going to be the case in this fight. BJ's cardio is MUCH better. Its even more important than a fighter getting better with his strikes or jitz. That was pretty much BJ's only weakness and it has vastly improved. So thats why he I think GSP will be fighting a much better fighter. He will be figting that guy he faught in the first round, not the guy he saw in the the 2nd and 3rd.

I agree BJ is much better when he is on top. But he is still very dangerous off his back. Remember against Hughes, he was pinned against the cage takin elbows then one second later he has Hughes twisted like a pretzel in 3 submissions simultaneously. And he uses his flexiblity to gain the dominant position as well. He could put GSP in danger by going for an omaplata and get a dominant position once GSP tries to escape.

Basically I just dont think it would be wise for Georges try to outwrestle BJ for 5 rounds. BJ is so freking squirmy and crafty that BJ would eventually catch him. If I was training GSP I would have him strike with Penn early on. BJ got the best of GSP last time but GSP still did pretty well. As long as he is holding his own in the standup I think he trades with BJ then with a minute left of every round he shoots in for a TD to win the round. Thats the smartest thing for Georges to do. If he stays on the ground with BJ for 5 rounds, he will get caught.

Ehh thats pretty much my take on the fight. Both fighters have a good shot at winning. I just feel BJ has alot to prove in this fight and is very hungry. Im actually sorta upset that one of these guys gotta lose. GSP has suddenly creeped into my top 10 favorite fighters. The guy is just so dynamic and athletic, I just love watching him.

Both guys are freaks and this is the best matchup the UFC has put on in a long time. I dont know anyone could complain about this fight. Its going to be great
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:05 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wawaweewa View Post
BJ uses his guard to sweep and take the back. He's extremely good at both of those, especially taking the back.
I agree but not really attempting subs off his back does hurt his overall ground game.

He might try one or two but unlike Nogueira he won't keep working for the sub off his back.
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:09 PM   #30 (permalink)
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MMA Grappling overall, GSP. But MMA BJJ/Subs, hands down BJ still, his flexibility is something that GSP will never have.
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