Randy Couture was definitely over-rated at heavyweight. - Page 3 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-16-2008, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Fedor>all View Post
I don't see how it's disrespectful, I'm not saying he sucks. I'm just saying he's not this phenom a lot of you were making him out to be. He's offers nothing from his back, he can't take a punch from guys at heavyweight, and he didn't fight an intelligent fight.



Randy's good at controlling from the clinch, but who did more damage from there last night? Brock, with ease. Look at the knees that lifted Randy off the ground, or the one that rattled his bell before he was caught with the huge punch. Brock was way more effective in Randy's strength and that's because he was simply too big and strong of a wrestler for Randy to do anything with.



Don't get me wrong, I think Lesnar's cardio looked like it wasn't very good until he caught Randy with that big knee.



Like I said, he was tired from pummeling for position, not from anything Randy landed inside the clinch. Randy has excellent cardio, but that's really all he looked more comfortable with than Lesnar in this fight.
brock wasn't breathing heavy at all (unlike couture who looked winded like he was about to keel over, Deep deep breaths after round one...) It looked like brock was trying to do as little as he had to in the early rounds to let Couture's old man cardio wear out.
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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-16-2008, 05:33 PM
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wow, this thread was conveniently made right after Brock wins...what do you know

if Brock beats Nog, Nog will have been on his way out of mma and wasn't as good as he used to be....
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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-16-2008, 05:45 PM
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Couture was overrated if you thought he was a top 5 HW. Has nothing to do with Brock winning honestly and I said this when people where ranking him #1 over Fedor.

Couture beat a broken Sylvia and Gonzaga. Two good HW wins but he wasn't top 5.

Now I thought Couture was a better striker then Brock and was shocked by how improved Brock was but that doesn't mean Couture was a great HW.

Couture would get owned by Velasquez because I'm not sure where Randy could go and have the advantage.

I honestly haven't thought he could give any of the top 4 HW's in the world a test in awhile.

And Aaronyman if Brock beats Nogueira I'll give him respect but do you really think Nogueira is as good as he used to be right now? Seriously?
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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-16-2008, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
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I can see what you are saying about Randy at HW. I don't think he'll ever go back to LHW though. He loves being the underdog. If he wins, he's superman. If he loses like last night, nobody is surprised and everyone still loves him. Look at his last 3 fights. If he loses to Silvia, it would have been because of ring rust and Silvia's size and noone blames him. Gonzaga was the big man who knocked out CroCop and everyone would have understood. It seems Randy never enters the ring as the heavy favorite because Randy loves challenges and doesn't except those fights. After he beats Gonzaga, would he have been the underdog against anyone else in the HW division at that time? The answer is no. So he left to seek out Fedor where he woould have been the underdog again. Randy loves challenges more than wins and I love watching him because of that.
Personally I think he'll be the underdog no matter what weight-class he fights in, simply because of his age. I believe there's just as, if not more competition for Randy at LHW, and those match-ups would be considerably more competitive than his HW affairs.

That said, I enjoyed reading your post, you offered an interesting take. I join Flak in welcoming you to the forum.

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I agree about the submission aspect, but Carwin and Velasquez are not the size of Lesnar...
They're not the same size, but they're still considerably larger than Randy with very respectable backgrounds in collegiate wrestling. Those are the only two guys in the HW division that I could see putting Lesnar on his back.


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The only thing I have to say to this is that Randy is 220lbs, 45 freak'n years old and was still far from being overpowered or out-wrestled by a guy who is the biggest heavyweight we'll ever see, (he walks around at 300lbs and has to cut up to 40lbs to make weight).

I don't think you can call Randy under rated in any respect. Last night wasn't his night, but to be doing what he's doing against the guys he's doing it with at his age is simply amazing.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not shitting on Randy's accomplishments. I just think that if you really look at the list of top 10 fighters in the HW division, comparing skillsets he's the least well-rounded.

His submission game is nil, and he's always going to be outwrestled by larger guys with backgrounds in wrestling. He's got one of the best Greco games in the world, but he couldn't do any damage from that position against Brock, simply because of Brock's wrestling ability and size. Bringing Randy's skill to LHW would be better for him, just because he'd be facing guys he's approximately the same size as.


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I don't have time right now to read the rest of your post, but the shot Herring took and the shot Randy took are COMPLETELY different shots.

Herring took a punch to his orbital area (the eye) while Randy got it right on the temple.

Temple = Knockout
Orbital area = PAIN

It's not that Randy can't take a shot, shit he took a punch to his temple from a guy who is 280 pounds and wears 4XL gloves.

Surely as a fighter, you should know the knockout spots on the head.
Yes, I'm aware that they're different shots. However, every time I've ever seen Randy cracked by a punch that connects, he breaks---no matter where it lands. I'm not saying he has a shitty "chin", I just think he doesn't have great recovery ability whereas Herring recovered and survived after being blasted early.

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Originally Posted by 69nites View Post
brock wasn't breathing heavy at all (unlike couture who looked winded like he was about to keel over, Deep deep breaths after round one...) It looked like brock was trying to do as little as he had to in the early rounds to let Couture's old man cardio wear out.
I disagree, I think Randy looked the fresher fighter. Yes Brock was letting Randy exert a lot of energy, but by no means did Randy look exhausted by comparison.

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wow, this thread was conveniently made right after Brock wins...what do you know
I've been saying it for a while, you should know that. I've never been a huge Couture fan, I respect him for what he's achieved as an athlete---especially for his age---but I've never thought he was anywhere near as good as a lot of people around here believe. If you read my post, you'd recognize that I give tonnes of credit to Lesnar for beating Randy, I just wanted to point out that Couture (in my opinion) isn't the complete fighter (especially at HW) that some members would lead you to believe.


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if Brock beats Nog, Nog will have been on his way out of mma and wasn't as good as he used to be....
If he beats Nogueira, I will be amazed because Nogueira is a much more accomplished heavyweight than Randy Couture, and he has a submission game that poses significant problems to Lesnar.

Last edited by Fedor>all; 11-16-2008 at 05:48 PM.
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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-16-2008, 05:51 PM
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I know what you are saying, but try explaining that to this idiot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG9JYyQKLNE

"It's easy to do anything in victory. It's in defeat that a man reveals himself." - Floyd Patterson

Last edited by blaked; 11-16-2008 at 06:00 PM.
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post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-16-2008, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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I know what you are saying, but try explaining that to this idiot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG9JYyQKLNE
Wow, what a moron.
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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-16-2008, 06:15 PM
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Couture was overrated if you thought he was a top 5 HW. Has nothing to do with Brock winning honestly and I said this when people where ranking him #1 over Fedor.

Couture beat a broken Sylvia and Gonzaga. Two good HW wins but he wasn't top 5.

Now I thought Couture was a better striker then Brock and was shocked by how improved Brock was but that doesn't mean Couture was a great HW.

Couture would get owned by Velasquez because I'm not sure where Randy could go and have the advantage.

I honestly haven't thought he could give any of the top 4 HW's in the world a test in awhile.

And Aaronyman if Brock beats Nogueira I'll give him respect but do you really think Nogueira is as good as he used to be right now? Seriously?
is has everything to do with brock winning...brock was the better fighter....and we need to stop discrediting randy's win over tim....and his win over gonzaga....at this stage for the HW division, beating both of them back to back is very impressive..and definitely top 5 worthy IMO....we have fedor, nog, who else was their to be at 3, 4 and 5? tim, no...arlovski, no...barnett hasn't fought a top 10 hw in 2 years, and hasn't looked great against the men he has faced...randy deserved #3 or #4 IMO...

and bjjd, please stop with the cain nuthuggery...he's beaten zero top fighters and his skillset is largely unknown...so saying he'd destroy couture is just a dumb statement...brock had at least faced heath herring, a very solid HW, with alot of experience....

overall, to both fedor>all and bjjd, we saw the same thing when he fought Herring...alot of seemingly smart posters around here thought Herring would beat Lesnar and said Lesnar just doesn't have the skills necessary....then immediately after said herring was never that good and that is was a tailor made matchup for lesnar....which is bs...alot of mma elitists seem to think their is this huge skill gap b/w great and good fighters...that just doesn't exist alot of the time...shogun, cro cop are prime examples...and come 2009, Nog will be on that list too....and the excuses will begin
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post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-16-2008, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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overall, to both fedor>all and bjjd, we saw the same thing when he fought Herring...alot of seemingly smart posters around here thought Herring would beat Lesnar and said Lesnar just doesn't have the skills necessary....then immediately after said herring was never that good and that is was a tailor made matchup for lesnar....which is bs...alot of mma elitists seem to think their is this huge skill gap b/w great and good fighters...that just doesn't exist alot of the time...shogun, cro cop are prime examples...and come 2009, Nog will be on that list too....and the excuses will begin

The difference is that I PICKED LESNAR TO WIN:
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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-16-2008, 06:33 PM
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The difference is that I PICKED LESNAR TO WIN:
i knew that, which is why i left naming specific people out of my argument...
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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-16-2008, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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i knew that, which is why i left naming specific people out of my argument...
I'm just pointing out that I'm exempt from those individuals because I never said anything to discredit Brock's win, or Herring as a fighter. I'm simply stating that I always picked Brock to beat Randy---a fighter I've always felt to be somewhat grossly overestimated at HW. At the end of the day, experience wasn't a factor, it was the style match-up that dictated my prediction.
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