Randy Couture was definitely over-rated at heavyweight. - Page 5 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #41 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Fedor>all View Post
First of all, this something I've felt for a while, not just because of last night. That said, I can't wait to see how many neg reps I get for this topic.

Randy Couture beat Tim Sylvia and Gabriel Gonzaga, which are very good wins, but as soon as that happened people started screaming "BRING ON FEDOR!!"

Simply put, last night Randy Couture was exposed, he's not the mastermind mixed martial artist a lot of you thought he was. He played right into Brock's strength (the clinch) and was manhandled as a result. Not only that, but his striking didn't look great, and as expected, he can't take a shot unlike Herring, nor does he have a threatening game off his back.

Randy's a legend in the sport, but I think people have been simply looking at him as something he's not, especially at heavyweight. He's a natural 205er, and I personally think he should go back down there.

Brock Lesnar won last night, and big props go to him. However, Randy Couture was exposed as what he really is. A fighter who relies on his bread and butter, and crumbles like cake when he can't have things his way.

That's just my opinion on Randy anyway, I have a lot of respect for him, I just think some of his fans and the UFC had a false impression of what he really offered in this fight, and his grander role in the scheme of the MMA world's HW division.


I disagree with your opinion- no neg rep tho

Based on how Randy looked and the amount of lean muscle mass he lost I would say age has caught up with him. Lesnar did not significantly outwrestle Couture. Before leaving the UFC over the dispute I think Randy would have outwrestled Brock and taken him down.

Of course this bodes really well for Fedor. After seeing the big match, there is no doubt in my mind that Fedor will take Lesnar down.

Is your opinion maybe based on the old Couture OR Lesnar arguments here? Where ppl felt hey had to take one side or the other?
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post #42 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 04:56 PM
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I wouldn't say over-rated, just maybe over-hyped. Most of us knew that Couture has had problems with bigger wrestlers in the past, not big fighters. I think Randy is the guy with the perfect style to beat alot of the bigger guys, but bigger wrestlers have the style to beat him. Strikers & BJJ guys were his specialty and he made a lot of them feel foolish, but put a guy like Barnett or Lesnar in there and he has problems.

Thinking about it a little more maybe over-rated is correct, but not too much. I feel he is still a top 5-10 fighter in HW just because he is a bad match-up for a lot of the guys in the HW division. I would still like to see him face both Mir (whom I feel he would slaughter) and Nog (I would honestly just like to see the fight) to see how he would do. He still could pose problems for people in the HW division who do not have a solid clinch and scramble game.
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post #43 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedor>all View Post
First of all, this something I've felt for a while, not just because of last night. That said, I can't wait to see how many neg reps I get for this topic.

Randy Couture beat Tim Sylvia and Gabriel Gonzaga, which are very good wins, but as soon as that happened people started screaming "BRING ON FEDOR!!"

Simply put, last night Randy Couture was exposed, he's not the mastermind mixed martial artist a lot of you thought he was. He played right into Brock's strength (the clinch) and was manhandled as a result. Not only that, but his striking didn't look great, and as expected, he can't take a shot unlike Herring, nor does he have a threatening game off his back.

Randy's a legend in the sport, but I think people have been simply looking at him as something he's not, especially at heavyweight. He's a natural 205er, and I personally think he should go back down there.

Brock Lesnar won last night, and big props go to him. However, Randy Couture was exposed as what he really is. A fighter who relies on his bread and butter, and crumbles like cake when he can't have things his way.

That's just my opinion on Randy anyway, I have a lot of respect for him, I just think some of his fans and the UFC had a false impression of what he really offered in this fight, and his grander role in the scheme of the MMA world's HW division.

I always thought that Randy was WAYYY overrated but to say he crumbles like a cake when he dosent get his way is just going over board to me. I personally expected Randy Couture to do alot worse then he did against Brock. He seemed like he was holding his own throughout the fight until Brock landed that right hand. I was impressed with Randy Couture just because i looked at him for what he is. A OLD fighter who hasent fought in a while and has 2 wins one over Tim Sylvia who Fedor managed to finish in under a minute and Gabriel Gonzaga who broke his nose in their fight. I never though nor will think that Randy is a great fighter but he sure as hell didnt Crumble like a cake in the octagon.
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post #44 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=Tommy08;710689]I disagree with your opinion- no neg rep tho

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy08 View Post
Based on how Randy looked and the amount of lean muscle mass he lost I would say age has caught up with him. Lesnar did not significantly outwrestle Couture. Before leaving the UFC over the dispute I think Randy would have outwrestled Brock and taken him down.
Honestly, I think Randy intentionally came in at 220 and it didn't have anything to do with his age. Machida used to come in at around 200, just so he could have that added speed against his opponents. Nogueira tried that the second time with Fedor as well, but he realized that it wasn't making a difference. Randy (I believe) thought that by coming in lighter, he'd be able to secure his position as the more agile fighter, he wanted to play a Machida-like gameplan, but instead he got sucked into a clinch fight where he couldn't overpower his opponent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy08 View Post
Of course this bodes really well for Fedor. After seeing the big match, there is no doubt in my mind that Fedor will take Lesnar down.

Is your opinion maybe based on the old Couture OR Lesnar arguments here? Where ppl felt hey had to take one side or the other?
I'm actually rather indifferent to both Lesnar and Couture, I picked the fight based-on the style match-up and the holes in Randy's game that would be strengths for high-end grapplers against Lesnr. You just can't face guys that big without being a threat off your back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SideWays222 View Post
I always thought that Randy was WAYYY overrated but to say he crumbles like a cake when he dosent get his way is just going over board to me. I personally expected Randy Couture to do alot worse then he did against Brock. He seemed like he was holding his own throughout the fight until Brock landed that right hand. I was impressed with Randy Couture just because i looked at him for what he is. A OLD fighter who hasent fought in a while and has 2 wins one over Tim Sylvia who Fedor managed to finish in under a minute and Gabriel Gonzaga who broke his nose in their fight. I never though nor will think that Randy is a great fighter but he sure as hell didnt Crumble like a cake in the octagon.
By crumbles like cake, I was referring to the fact that every time he fights (and loses), it's because he fails to command his gameplan. It's good and all that he comes up with these gameplans, but it appears to me as though he didn't execute it the best he could have. Once he felt Brock's power, he became more hesitant to engage in the stand-up (where he was more than holding his own), and once he got caught he was just done.

Once again, I'm not saying the shot wouldn't have dropped anyone else, but it does seem to me like once he hit the ground he crumbled completely. He didn't appear to be unconscious because only a few shots came through cleanly, and he was still protecting his face. However, he made no attempt to claim any guard at all, and that was the end of his night.

Whenever Randy's been beaten at his strength in a fight, he has lost. That's what my overall point was with the "crumbling" comment.
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