Randy Couture was definitely over-rated at heavyweight. - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Randy Couture was definitely over-rated at heavyweight.

First of all, this something I've felt for a while, not just because of last night. That said, I can't wait to see how many neg reps I get for this topic.

Randy Couture beat Tim Sylvia and Gabriel Gonzaga, which are very good wins, but as soon as that happened people started screaming "BRING ON FEDOR!!"

Simply put, last night Randy Couture was exposed, he's not the mastermind mixed martial artist a lot of you thought he was. He played right into Brock's strength (the clinch) and was manhandled as a result. Not only that, but his striking didn't look great, and as expected, he can't take a shot unlike Herring, nor does he have a threatening game off his back.

Randy's a legend in the sport, but I think people have been simply looking at him as something he's not, especially at heavyweight. He's a natural 205er, and I personally think he should go back down there.

Brock Lesnar won last night, and big props go to him. However, Randy Couture was exposed as what he really is. A fighter who relies on his bread and butter, and crumbles like cake when he can't have things his way.

That's just my opinion on Randy anyway, I have a lot of respect for him, I just think some of his fans and the UFC had a false impression of what he really offered in this fight, and his grander role in the scheme of the MMA world's HW division.

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Old 11-16-2008, 04:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't agree with this assessment, and to post that, then say you have a lot of respect for him is pretty funny.

Brocks strength isn't the clinch, it's top position on the ground. The clinch is something Randy is good at, even against big guys, and the fact that he was going back and forth on position with Brock is testament to that fact. Hell, he even got up when Brock had him down. That was an even battle, and frankly, i think it was making Brock tired.

It's fortunate brock has at least one good punch in his arsenal that he's good at landing, and that he landed it very nicly in the second round before he got ground down more by the clinch game.
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't agree with this assessment, and to post that, then say you have a lot of respect for him is pretty funny.
I don't see how it's disrespectful, I'm not saying he sucks. I'm just saying he's not this phenom a lot of you were making him out to be. He's offers nothing from his back, he can't take a punch from guys at heavyweight, and he didn't fight an intelligent fight.

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Brocks strength isn't the clinch, it's top position on the ground. The clinch is something Randy is good at, even against big guys, and the fact that he was going back and forth on position with Brock is testament to that fact.
Randy's good at controlling from the clinch, but who did more damage from there last night? Brock, with ease. Look at the knees that lifted Randy off the ground, or the one that rattled his bell before he was caught with the huge punch. Brock was way more effective in Randy's strength and that's because he was simply too big and strong of a wrestler for Randy to do anything with.

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Hell, he even got up when Brock had him down. That was an even battle, and frankly, i think it was making Brock tired.
Don't get me wrong, I think Lesnar's cardio looked like it wasn't very good until he caught Randy with that big knee.

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It's fortunate brock has at least one good punch in his arsenal that he's good at landing, and that he landed it very nicly in the second round before he got ground down more by the clinch game.
Like I said, he was tired from pummeling for position, not from anything Randy landed inside the clinch. Randy has excellent cardio, but that's really all he looked more comfortable with than Lesnar in this fight.
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I think a lot of Randy's mystique came from beating guys that were both stronger and younger than he was with skill and not power. I'm not sure he was as great as everyone thought he was at HW, but I don't know if goign to LHW where there is much more talent is going to be a good idea.
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think a lot of Randy's mystique came from beating guys that were both stronger and younger than he was with skill and not power. I'm not sure he was as great as everyone thought he was at HW, but I don't know if goign to LHW where there is much more talent is going to be a good idea.
Because his style matches up better with LHWs than HWs. He'd easily be the best wrestler in the division, which would allow him to spend more time on-top where he's strongest, than on the bottom where he's going to be outwrestled by guys like Lesnar, Velasquez, and Carwin.
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Na Randy is still a top 5-6 HW in the world IMO, Brock Lesnar is just the worst possible match up for him.
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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But as we've seen, cardio is over times enough to win fights. I think Randy knew he couldn't dominate Brock in the clinch, nor really damage him....but i don't think that was his plan.

I think his plan was to clinch up, take as little damage as possible (even though he would expect some), and grind for position until his superior cardio became enough of a factor for him to put Brock on his back.

For the most part, i think he did this quite well, and Brock was tiring. Unfortunately for Randy, Brock also has that good right hand and managed to land it. Had he not, and they continued the way it was going....i would predict that Brock gasses eliminating his strength/athleticism advantage, and handed the fight to Randy.

That didn't happen of course, Brock binked him really hard behind the ear - something that i think would have knocked anyone down.
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Na Randy is still a top 5-6 HW in the world IMO, Brock Lesnar is just the worst possible match up for him.
Guys like Velasquez and Carwin would eat his lunch as well for similar reasons. Randy just doesn't have those submission skills that are absolutely necessary for a top guy at HW to have. The heavyweight division is comprised of enormous wrestlers and excellent grapplers, Randy just wouldn't be able to hang anymore with the influx of fighters better than him at what he does.

Like I said though, this is just what I think, I respect all of your opinions and wouldn't expect anyone to agree with me.
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I can see what you are saying about Randy at HW. I don't think he'll ever go back to LHW though. He loves being the underdog. If he wins, he's superman. If he loses like last night, nobody is surprised and everyone still loves him. Look at his last 3 fights. If he loses to Silvia, it would have been because of ring rust and Silvia's size and noone blames him. Gonzaga was the big man who knocked out CroCop and everyone would have understood. It seems Randy never enters the ring as the heavy favorite because Randy loves challenges and doesn't except those fights. After he beats Gonzaga, would he have been the underdog against anyone else in the HW division at that time? The answer is no. So he left to seek out Fedor where he woould have been the underdog again. Randy loves challenges more than wins and I love watching him because of that.

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Old 11-16-2008, 04:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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That's actually an interesting take and really good post.

Welcome to the forum mate.
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