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Old 11-17-2008, 12:12 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CornbreadBB View Post
Herring has a solid ground game? What the hell have you been watching?
I would say anyone that can go to decision against Nogueira TWICE has pretty damn solid ground game. He has 16 submission wins compared to Kongo's 1, and has rolled against best heavy weights in the world several times. My point was that if Herring had no answer to Brock's ground game, there is no chance Kongo would have either.
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:59 PM   #32 (permalink)
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UFC has always been money match over matches based on ranking.

Herring is indeed a legitimate win. He looks awkward but has literally fought most of the best fighters in the world; and he has a record that is more wins than losses. Very solid middel tier fighter. And we can't deny he is tough as nails- even losing he never gives up and can take one heck of a beating.

As far as the win over Randy- When I heard that Randy was 220, saw him step into the match without definition, I estimated he lost about 8-11 pounds of lean muscle mass. At that point I thought he would lose. Even witht the size difference Lesnar's wrestlign did not dominate Randy. On the contrary 1-2 years ago Randy would have taken Lesnar down.

The way I se it Lesnar still has to prove himself- he has the title but is not a true champ yet. He is also exciting and controversial too watch and at least he is not 100% hype like Kimbo was.
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:13 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by _Destruction_ View Post
Randy didnt deserve his title shot against sylvia.He was coming off a loss to chuck.and, brock is actually 3-1.Yes, cans count too.You need to stop bitching, sekou
Randy getting his title shot against Sylvia and Brock getting his title shot are COMPLETELY different. Don't even try to compare them. At the time, Randy had more previous accomplishments then almost anyone else in the sport.. and he wasn't 2-1.

Brock is 3-1 now, when he got the title shot he was 2-1.. YES counting the can.

TS needs to stop bitching, but you need to stop posting stupid shit..
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Old 11-17-2008, 04:02 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stitch1z View Post
Erm... He lost to Mir (not even top 5) and Herring isn't even top 10.
Than who would you rather him face in the UFC that is Top 5-10?? Nogueira is the only one and he almost lost to Herring who isn't a Top 10 HW in the world. Sylvia would've won a UD if he didn't get caught by Nogueira.

This isn't 2006. The great Cro Cop/Hunt/Sergei/etc are not Top 5-10 anymore. Werdum is out of the UFC because he got KO'd by a nobody. Sylvia & AA are gone. Kongo and Hardonk would get wrecked on the ground by Lesnar.
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:59 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stitch1z View Post
The ranking is the only aspect of this that is really bothering me. I can't justify in my mind putting him in the top 5 when he only has 5 fights on his record... And that's assuming he beats Nog. No way is he top 5 right now for beating one top 10 fighter.
Right now the list is something like this (in my opinion)
1. Fedor
2. Nog
3. Barnett
4. Arlovski
5. Randy
6. Mir
7. Lesnar
8. Conzaga
9. Werdum
10. Sylvia

Still ranking Randy above Brock until his sub defense is re-tested. If he indeed beats Nog I would toss him up there in top 5, possibly even #2 although Arlovski could be the guy beating him if Nog isn't. Barnett hasn't really proven his position recently and I pretty much doubt he could beat Brock if Nog can't.

Not 100% sure about the positions bitween 6-10, I personally have problems ranking Sylvia top 10 at all, but to be fair no-one else on that list would have beaten Randy, Nog and Fedor either. He is still a solid (yet boring ^^) name, but he needs a win against big name next to really be considered anything. Problem with being outside UFC he only has Barnett and Arlovski to roll with, I don't see him beating either even though he is 2-1 against Arlovski.
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Old 11-17-2008, 09:19 PM   #36 (permalink)
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what does sub defense has to do him beating randy? lol
and how can u mark gonzaga over werdum? and were is kharitonov ?
mir over werdum? lol
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:02 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dontazo View Post
what does sub defense has to do him beating randy? lol
and how can u mark gonzaga over werdum? and were is kharitonov ?
mir over werdum? lol
Alot. Styles make fights. Last blackbelt Brock fought subbed him in 1 minute and 30 seconds, the title unification fight against the winner of Nog vs. Mir is perfect forum for Brock to show how much his sub defense has improved. Its hard to rank him up there above the guys with great submission game even with the belt, which is why I still have Randy above him.

Could argue for the position of Werdum, true he has 2 wins over Conzaga, but he also has a devastating loss against an unranked rookie. I could see someone swapping those 2 around but rest is still pretty much right ^^
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:07 PM   #38 (permalink)
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The way I se it Lesnar still has to prove himself- he has the title but is not a true champ yet. He is also exciting and controversial too watch and at least he is not 100% hype like Kimbo was.
This is a good point, and I liken him to Tito, who only had four UFC (3-1)fights before he got his first title shot. The man is a draw. Draws get more consideration.
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