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Old 11-04-2006, 07:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Quietus
Do you seriously believe that the UFC and Dana White are so bereft of morals that they'd toss the careers of 8 fighters under the bus to improve Tito Ortiz' rep? Waitaminute, don't answer that. What's the opposite of a nuthugger? There seem to be a few people here who can find a nefarious plot in any situation. DANA WHITE GAVE THE FIGHTERS STAPH INFECTIONS ON TUF4 BECAUSE XYIENCE IS GETTING INTO ANTIBIOTICS!

Think Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is almost always the right one. In this case, Ken did a brutal job of coaching.

I'm not really familiar with Ken's coaching achievements, although I've heard of the Lion's Den (I'm new, so sue me). Has the Lion's Den produced any fighters worth mentioning recently? Everyone seems to be part of the Miletich camp or Team Punishment or Team Quest or Chute Box or wherever. I haven't heard of anyone from the Lion's Den. (I'm not being crappy here, I honestly haven't heard of anyone fighting out of the Lion's Den.)

I certainly agree that the TUF show used some editing magic and that some bits were scripted, but when it comes to the actual fighting, I still say Shamrock got out-coached.
Well I'm gonna go against your orders and answer anyway. First of all, yes, I do believe Dana is that bereft, to a certain degree. Second of all, I don't think Ken did as bad of a job as the show made it seem. Third of all, yes, Tito outcoached him, but that's not to take away Ken's coaching abilities. Tito is a better coach, so what? That doesn't make Ken horrible. I can tell you are new by your animosity towards Ken, and your naiveness (if that's even a word) of how corrupt a fighting organization can be. I'm not snapping at you, or bashing you. But if you can't even think of a fighter from the Lion's Den off the top of your head, then your opinion of Shamrock is completely nullified. You only know what SpikeTV wants you to know. Ken is really not as retarded and "blockheaded" as the editor's at SpikeTV let on. I'm not saying he did an excellent coaching job, not at all. I'm just saying that they exaggerated it a lot, and yes, Tito outcoached him that is obvious. I'm just sick of people thinking that just because Tito Ortiz is better at coaching and fighting, that automatically makes Ken Shamrock the biggest douchebag ever. He deserves respect, and he's not as bad as you think. If it wasn't for him, you wouldn't be on your computer right now thinking about Matt Hughes and Georges St. Pierre fighting in 2 weeks.
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Old 11-04-2006, 07:04 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WouldLuv2FightU
Well I'm gonna go against your orders and answer anyway. First of all, yes, I do believe Dana is that bereft, to a certain degree. Second of all, I don't think Ken did as bad of a job as the show made it seem. Third of all, yes, Tito outcoached him, but that's not to take away Ken's coaching abilities. Tito is a better coach, so what? That doesn't make Ken horrible. I can tell you are new by your animosity towards Ken, and your naiveness (if that's even a word) of how corrupt a fighting organization can be. I'm not snapping at you, or bashing you. But if you can't even think of a fighter from the Lion's Den off the top of your head, then your opinion of Shamrock is completely nullified. You only know what SpikeTV wants you to know. Ken is really not as retarded and "blockheaded" as the editor's at SpikeTV let on. I'm not saying he did an excellent coaching job, not at all. I'm just saying that they exaggerated it a lot, and yes, Tito outcoached him that is obvious. I'm just sick of people thinking that just because Tito Ortiz is better at coaching and fighting, that automatically makes Ken Shamrock the biggest douchebag ever. He deserves respect, and he's not as bad as you think. If it wasn't for him, you wouldn't be on your computer right now thinking about Matt Hughes and Georges St. Pierre fighting in 2 weeks.
Yeah Dude, but Ken made HIMSELF look that way time and time again ... he always has some loudmouthed opinion about other fighters even going back to not giving Royce any respect. It was clear he did not have the respect of his fighters as coach and listening to his rants on interviews and on TV (even if partially edited by Spike) is good proof that this guy was off his nut
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Old 11-04-2006, 07:05 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BadHabitBabe
But if you were a legend wouldn't the Octagon be a great place to die if it was your time?
If you thought you were having a heart attack in the ring, you're telling me you naturally wouldn't freak out and want to get medical attention. Get real! Just because he wasn't willing to die in the ring doesn't mean he is a joke. Nobody wants to die what did you expect him to do I mean seriously? And besides that it wasn't in the Octagon!!! Unless you're just being funny or sarcastic, in that case then nevermind! Hahaha.
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Old 11-04-2006, 07:30 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Or, you know, he could've gassed. Pretty convenient that his heart problems started after he unloaded on Fujita. Looked like Ken threw everything at him, saw that it wasn't working, and bailed out.
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Old 11-04-2006, 07:41 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Here's some videos for you NOOBS!

Alright, it seems everyone who is arguing with me about Ken is completely new to this sport...so I am going to do you a favor and educate you on the true personality of Ken Shamrock. The Ken Shamrock you see on SpikeTV and the real Ken Shamrock are 2 different people. Same with Tito Ortiz...Tito even acknowledged that they both just act the way they do to sell tickets. Get it through your heads! The guy was with the WWF for 5 years! He has a habit of acting over-the-top at times, but it is just an act! Just like Tito! Tito is a little crybaby and such an emotional little child inside, but he acts like a tough mother****er for the cameras because IT SELLS TICKETS.

Look at how humble and intelligent Ken can be when he is not trying to sell tickets:
YouTube - Ken Shamrock Retirement
YouTube - ken shamrock interview

If you don't know who any of the Lion's Den fighters are then watch this highlight:
YouTube - Ken Shamrock's Lion's Den even if you do know, it is still a good highlight. And here's another one with a better song.
YouTube - Ken Shamrock's Lion's Den

Here's a funny one with Ken flipping out on Don Frye at a press conference. He says something along the lines of "I'll be in this fight to ****ing die". If you have ever seen this fight, then you would know that Ken is not a quitter and if he didn't gas or quit in this fight, then what makes you think he gassed and quit in the Fujita fight? He said he's in it to die for the Don Frye fight, but his life was never actually in danger. In the Fujita fight he really thought he might be dying, and he understandably threw in the towel so he can NOT DIE! Also look at the first Ortiz/Shamrock fight, did he quit or gas in that fight? No I don't believe he did...even though he was getting pounded worse than he ever has in his career at that point. Anyway here's his confrontation with Don Frye over in Japan. Ken Shamrock Don Frye Press Conference - PRIDE, 19, Bad, Blood, Conference - Dailymotion Share Your Videos I get the feeling that this is half real, and half "let's sell tickets". Because at the end of the fight, they hugged and smiled and hugged and hugged again.
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Old 11-04-2006, 07:44 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damone
Or, you know, he could've gassed. Pretty convenient that his heart problems started after he unloaded on Fujita. Looked like Ken threw everything at him, saw that it wasn't working, and bailed out.
You're right, I can't argue with anyone anymore about this subject because none of us know the truth. All I can say is, of all the fights he DIDN'T gas or quit in (Tito/Shamrock 1, Don Frye, etc.) why did he all the sudden decide he was gonna quit in this one. He knew he was winning the fight, he's been in much tougher battles, what would make him quit in this fight?
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Old 11-04-2006, 07:54 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I am fully aware of Ken's career. Hell, I'm a fan of his Pancrase work, and his fight with Frye at Bad Blood was really good. I believe Ken should've retired after that fight, because he came out looking really good.

I am not new to this sport. I am not some misinformed twit who became a fan after Bonnar vs Griffin 1.
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Old 11-04-2006, 08:37 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietus
Wasn't that exactly what he did?
Eventually, but not when he should have, and not before trying to get the ref and his corner to stop the fight for him first.
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Old 11-04-2006, 08:37 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damone
I am fully aware of Ken's career. Hell, I'm a fan of his Pancrase work, and his fight with Frye at Bad Blood was really good. I believe Ken should've retired after that fight, because he came out looking really good.

I am not new to this sport. I am not some misinformed twit who became a fan after Bonnar vs Griffin 1.
Shiiiit Damone you gotta know I wasn't referring to you as a new fan...You just happen to post right before I made that post. I was making that post for like 30 minutes, I didn't know you posted and then I made that post. I was talking about the guy (Quietus) and gal (BadHabitBabe) who said they are new to the sport. I agree he shoulda retired after that fight. That way I wouldn't need to stick up for him so much right now!!!!!
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Old 11-04-2006, 08:47 PM   #30 (permalink)
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My mistake.

Yea, I've defended Ken & the Den for a while now. Some people really need to watch Ken's Pancrase work(Notably the Bas fights). It gets tiring to read/hear the constant "KEN SLAMCOCK SUX HE HAS ALWAYS SUXED!".

Man, that Frye vs Shamrock fight ruled. Epic is the word I'd describe it. Hell, the staredown was even great.
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