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Old 12-20-2009, 02:02 PM   #171 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
Lol no problem, especially seeing as how there are no Kung Fu trained fighters that come around because it's impractical and doesn't translate well to MMA fighting.

Bullshit! My sparring partner can handle almost anyone in my MMA gym, Karate Studio or Mauy Thai school that I can--and that's most of them!
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Old 12-20-2009, 02:11 PM   #172 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Squirrelfighter View Post
Bullshit! My sparring partner can handle almost anyone in my MMA gym, Karate Studio or Mauy Thai school that I can--and that's most of them!
Oh, is that the same North American Praying Mantis style with Wing Chun[g] stance friend that would kill Roy Nelson in two seconds?


If only there was some kind of international fighting sport that could pit styles against each other to prove which one is really effective... Then after say, 15 years we'd probably have a decent idea of which styles are good and which styles are for show?

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say Kickboxing, Wrestling, Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Sambo, Greco, and Thai Boxing will prove they're effective and Kung Fu will be forgotten by true competitors due to it's impracticality. Then maybe someday someone will make a thread on a forum about it.
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Old 12-20-2009, 02:27 PM   #173 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
Oh, is that the same North American Praying Mantis style with Wing Chun[g] stance friend that would kill Roy Nelson in two seconds?


If only there was some kind of international fighting sport that could pit styles against each other to prove which one is really effective... Then after say, 15 years we'd probably have a decent idea of which styles are good and which styles are for show?

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say Kickboxing, Wrestling, Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Sambo, Greco, and Thai Boxing will prove they're effective and Kung Fu will be forgotten by true competitors due to it's impracticality. Then maybe someday someone will make a thread on a forum about it.
You smarmy imbecilic pathetic human being. Your lack of respect for another martial art with a deep rooted history far longer and more ingraned than your precious thai boxing is disgusting. Its people just like you who think that Mauy Thai is where the striking world ends that make people say MMA fighters are simple minded brawlers. If you knew even a fraction of what you claimed to you'd understand that Kung Fu is just as applicable in MMA as any other war-based fighting style.

Just admit you know nothing about Kung Fu, and everything you think you know is implied and BS. Don't ever present yourself as knowledgeable again you narcissistic child! And its not North American, its Northern. Tht means its from northern china. Its totally different from Southern, which is based in--not south america--southern china.

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Old 12-20-2009, 02:28 PM   #174 (permalink)
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Woah wait...are you about to say Muay Thai is a better art than Kung Fu? You are ignorant.

Kung Fu is based around precepts and concepts that imply the fighter has or can deveolop the ability to move rapidly and with fluidity. Meaning, that when he lifts his leg to dodge your leg kick, he's not just evading, he's throwing a cresent kick to the temple...unconscious.

Or when you come in to snag his leg for a takedown, he grabs one of your wrists in a mantis grasp and torques it around in the socket while you flail like a dying fish.

Or when you go for a head kick...The weight is shifted onto that lead leg to enact a "Squirrel Block" (Kung Fu's animal name for the roundhouse to the head defense) and in that same motion that brought his weight forward and blocked your kick, he sends a spinning back kick into your chin...unconciousness.

Do me a favor andd never fight a Kung Fu trained fighter. You'll just embarass yourself because you don't respect the art.

The problem is, it takes wayyyy too long to master those "precepts and concepts" and even if you do master them, Kung Fu still has major holes in its game and puts too much emphasis on speed over technique or basic body mechanics. The reason why Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling, and BJJ are all time tested and proven arts is because they spar on a daily basis and actively test out new techniques. You can't just reherse moves or katas and expect them to work when you don't know how the human body works when fighting back or what counters to use. I gurantee you that if you put a guy who has sparred for a month in Boxing, BJJ, Muay Thai, or Wrestling against a guy of a similar weight who has trained for 6 months in Kung Fu, the former guy would dominate the Kung Fu fighter.


And before you say something about "well, you don't know jack about Kung Fu", I used to take it when I was a teenager for a few months and eventually got my blue belt. The system was Wuzuquan or Five Ancestors’ Fist (whatever that is lol). I feel that I learned 10x more in my first month of BJJ/Muay Thai/MMA than I did in all my time in Kung Fu or my 1 month in Taekwondo. After I learned how to do just basic things like keeping my hands up, chin tucked, basic head movement, and proper kicks, I looked at new guys and other martial arts and I could just pick apart all the holes in their defenses (and I'm no expert either). I mean sure, you say you could throw a "cresent kick" or whatever kick to someone's temple, but do you yourself even know how to properly block a headkick or check a leg kick? That's even more important than throwing one IMO.




And lol at "grabbing the wrist and failing like a fish." You know how hard it is to grab another guy's wrist while he is actively fighting back? That's one of the reasons why Karo Paryison had to adapt his Judo to MMA. Its a lot harder to grab another man's sweaty wrists (as opposed to Gi) while he is actively moving or throwing punches. The only time when grabbing the wrist is practical is when you are in the clinch, in which case, Kung Fu has no answer to that and he would get thrown/taking down. There is no complete martial art, but BJJ IMO is the closest there is and Kung Fu guys would get destroyed on the ground or toyed with against a wrestler. Standing, all they have is a puncher's chance against a half decent Muay Thai fighter or Boxer.
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Old 12-20-2009, 02:42 PM   #175 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
Oh, is that the same North American Praying Mantis style with Wing Chun[g] stance friend that would kill Roy Nelson in two seconds?


If only there was some kind of international fighting sport that could pit styles against each other to prove which one is really effective... Then after say, 15 years we'd probably have a decent idea of which styles are good and which styles are for show?

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say Kickboxing, Wrestling, Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Sambo, Greco, and Thai Boxing will prove they're effective and Kung Fu will be forgotten by true competitors due to it's impracticality. Then maybe someday someone will make a thread on a forum about it.
How do you explain the success of Cung Le and Anthony Johnson if you think Kung Fu is completely ineffective?
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Old 12-20-2009, 02:47 PM   #176 (permalink)
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Okay well I see I've wasted my time. I was warned by another user that this threat was a whole lot of Kung Fu haters. And now I see he was right.

I don't do Kung Fu, but I've been sparring against it for three years. And I can tell you better than most other people on this entire forum that its more than applicable. It just takes more work. You can't be a casual fighter and do Kung Fu. And thats the difference. It takes a hardcore motivation to excel at Kung Fu and my partner has it. That's why he's so good and that's why guys with little if any Kung Fu knowledge really piss me off when they think they can break down the art. So excuse me if I hate Muay Thai and stick up for the original martial art.

By the way: Karate(all 5 original disciplines), MAUY THAI, Jujitsu, along with all of the other less stylized martial arts are based on Kung Fu. It all came from China, well originally India with Buddism.
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:02 PM   #177 (permalink)
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How do you explain the success of Cung Le and Anthony Johnson if you think Kung Fu is completely ineffective?
And who has Cung Le been successful against? Cans? Cung Le is the poster child of what not to be in MMA. His GnP sucks. He has no ground game as in poor BJJ, Wrestling, Sambo, Judo, whatever. His throws are nice, but they have been against lesser opponents. Take away his spinning back kicks and honestly what does his Shan Shou standup have? Poor boxing, head movement, and no KO power? I'm not saying that Shan Shou (obviously one of the only parts of Kung Fu that is going to be slightly successful in MMA), but if Cung Le is the poster child for why Kung Fu is successful in MMA, he isn't doing a very good job.


Anyone can pull off anything in MMA. Just because you pull off a KO with a spinning backfist doesn't mean that would work against another fighter or in every fight. Samething goes with styles. Just because Lyoto Machida has encorporated his Karate into MMA doesn't mean everyone would be able to pull it off or that it would be effective against an opponent in a more "proven" art that has a better understanding of it. Shogun exposed a lot of holes in Machida's Karate and showed why the wide stance of Karate (or Kung Fu in this instance) is a problem. Any other Karate-based fighter except for Machida would have been finished in that fight by Shogun. As for Anthony Johnson, he got destroyed on the ground and his Kung Fu didn't exactly give him a major advantage on the feet. Its not hard for the guy to look impressive against smaller and less skilled fighters either. Koscheck exposed him too IMO.
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:05 PM   #178 (permalink)
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I would take a Muay Thai fighter over a Kung Fu fighter any day..Kung Fu doesnt work well in MMA if thats all you know, a one dimensional Kung Fu fighter would lose to any MMA fighter with good ground game because thats all he would need to do, just take him down and pound him out. I could see it being somewhat useful if you had Kung Fu and some good greco and bjj though..thats just my opinion.
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:09 PM   #179 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Squirrelfighter View Post
Just admit you know nothing about Kung Fu, and everything you think you know is implied and BS. Don't ever present yourself as knowledgeable again you narcissistic child! And its not North American, its Northern. Tht means its from northern china. Its totally different from Southern, which is based in--not south america--southern china.
I was referring to the North American Praying Mantis, whose existence is threatened due to his ineffectiveness.

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How do you explain the success of Cung Le and Anthony Johnson if you think Kung Fu is completely ineffective?
Well Cung Le was named Black Belt Magazine's best Kung Fu fighter in the world... and he just got KO'd by Scott Smith... Rumble is primarily a kickboxer and a wrestler, he just simply has a Sanshou background but you rarely ever see him use it.

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By the way: Karate(all 5 original disciplines), MAUY THAI, Jujitsu, along with all of the other less stylized martial arts are based on Kung Fu. It all came from China, well originally India with Buddism.

Keep in mind, ALL of those Martial Arts came from Pankration.
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:23 PM   #180 (permalink)
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...Kung Fu can be used as a base but it definitely isn't going to be effective unless you become well-rounded with each aspect of the game. Lyoto Machida is the best example so far. Karate is his base but he knows Sumo, Jiu Jitsu, Wrestling & and Muay Thai as well.
...It's quite obvious that in order to successful in MMA, you have to be well-rounded...
...Joe Rogan made a good point at UFC 98 concerning Machida. "Before Machida was a successful MMA fighter, he was a successful Karate fighter but when you know Wrestling and all those other things as well as being successful at Karate, that's when that skill shines through..."
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