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Old 06-24-2006, 04:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kameleon
Ken Shamrock!
I respect your opinion, but Ken Shamrock is by no means the best fighter, you obviously don't no much about this stuff.
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Old 06-24-2006, 09:11 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks for being the bright and shining example of "new to the sport." I recommend you buy the first 30 UFCs and tell me who is the best heavyweight and middleweight.

Ken Shamrock was the master of not continuing a tournament (either by loss or injury). He also never beat any real fighters.

Loss Rich Franklin TKO (Strikes) UFC-Ultimate Fighter Finale 4/9/2005 1 2:42
Win Kimo Leopoldo TKO (Knee) UFC 48-Payback 6/19/2004 1 1:26
Loss Tito Ortiz TKO (Corner Stoppage) UFC 40-Vendetta 11/22/2002 3 5:00
Loss Dan Severn Decision UFC 9-Motor City Madness 5/17/1996 1 30:00
Win Kimo Leopoldo Submission (Kneebar) UFC 8-David vs. Goliath 2/16/1996 1 4:24
Draw Oleg Taktarov Draw UFC 7-The Brawl in Buffalo 9/8/1995 1 33:00
Win Dan Severn Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 6-Clash of the Titans 7/14/1995 1 2:14
Draw Royce Gracie Draw UFC 5-The Return of the Beast 4/7/1995 1 36:00
Win Felix Mitchell Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:34
Win Christophe Leninger Submission (Strikes) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:49
Loss Royce Gracie Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 0:57
Win Patrick Smith Submission (Heel Hook) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 1:49

Have you ever seen Frank Shamrock?

Has he been banned from the UFC or something? He is not on the fighters list. He was the most dominant middleweight the UFC ever had.


Win Tito Ortiz Submission (Strikes) UFC 22-There Can Be Only One Champion 9/24/1999 4 4:42
Win John Lober Submission (Strikes) UFC Brazil-Ultimate Brazil 10/16/1998 1 7:40
Win Jeremy Horn Submission (Kneebar) UFC 17-Redemption 5/15/1998 1 16:28
Win Igor Zinoviev KO (Slam) UFC 16-Battle in the Bayou 3/13/1998 1 0:22
Win Kevin Jackson Submission (Armbar) UFC Japan-Ultimate Japan 1 12/21/1997 1 0:16

The records speak for themselves. The wrong Shamrock is in the hall of fame. Ken is a joke to the UFC and is only popular due to his WWF time.
No knowledgable fan holds Ken's UFC record in any high regard.
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Ive been watching UFC since i was 5 smart ass And where the hell is your list???

Ken Dominated his weight class.

Last edited by Eminem : 06-24-2006 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 06-25-2006, 04:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Eminem
Ken Dominated his weight class.
Not really. You said he was a heavyweight when he was in middleweight and light heavyweight fights. Oh well, he might be a heavyweight, I don't know that much about the weight class s---.

He didn't dominate any class except in his early days. Royce Gracie and Dan Severn were more successful than Ken. And when Ken returned to the UFC he got owned and didn't dominate anyone anytime. Tito Ortiz sent him out of action for another two years, then he came back and was the role of a punching bag during a Rich Franklin fight.

But he has done a lot for the business. I mean without him the submissions would be crappy. Without him back then in the early days it would have just been knuckle fighting except with Gracie in the ring. He was sort of like Belfort and Abbott. Both were awesome in their early days but when they returned to the octagon it was a whole new game and they were molested in the ring.

Other notables to be the greatest UFC fighters should be:
Bas Rutten
Frank Shamrock
Pat Miletich
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Old 06-26-2006, 03:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by USMCgrappler
Thanks for being the bright and shining example of "new to the sport." I recommend you buy the first 30 UFCs and tell me who is the best heavyweight and middleweight.

Ken Shamrock was the master of not continuing a tournament (either by loss or injury). He also never beat any real fighters.

Loss Rich Franklin TKO (Strikes) UFC-Ultimate Fighter Finale 4/9/2005 1 2:42
Win Kimo Leopoldo TKO (Knee) UFC 48-Payback 6/19/2004 1 1:26
Loss Tito Ortiz TKO (Corner Stoppage) UFC 40-Vendetta 11/22/2002 3 5:00
Loss Dan Severn Decision UFC 9-Motor City Madness 5/17/1996 1 30:00
Win Kimo Leopoldo Submission (Kneebar) UFC 8-David vs. Goliath 2/16/1996 1 4:24
Draw Oleg Taktarov Draw UFC 7-The Brawl in Buffalo 9/8/1995 1 33:00
Win Dan Severn Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 6-Clash of the Titans 7/14/1995 1 2:14
Draw Royce Gracie Draw UFC 5-The Return of the Beast 4/7/1995 1 36:00
Win Felix Mitchell Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:34
Win Christophe Leninger Submission (Strikes) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:49
Loss Royce Gracie Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 0:57
Win Patrick Smith Submission (Heel Hook) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 1:49

Have you ever seen Frank Shamrock?

Has he been banned from the UFC or something? He is not on the fighters list. He was the most dominant middleweight the UFC ever had.


Win Tito Ortiz Submission (Strikes) UFC 22-There Can Be Only One Champion 9/24/1999 4 4:42
Win John Lober Submission (Strikes) UFC Brazil-Ultimate Brazil 10/16/1998 1 7:40
Win Jeremy Horn Submission (Kneebar) UFC 17-Redemption 5/15/1998 1 16:28
Win Igor Zinoviev KO (Slam) UFC 16-Battle in the Bayou 3/13/1998 1 0:22
Win Kevin Jackson Submission (Armbar) UFC Japan-Ultimate Japan 1 12/21/1997 1 0:16

The records speak for themselves. The wrong Shamrock is in the hall of fame. Ken is a joke to the UFC and is only popular due to his WWF time.
No knowledgable fan holds Ken's UFC record in any high regard.
Man I just have to say THANK YOU, you have to be the most down to earth guy on this forum, i completely and totally agree.
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Old 06-28-2006, 07:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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moldy is just really nicemoldy is just really nicemoldy is just really nicemoldy is just really nicemoldy is just really nicemoldy is just really nicemoldy is just really nicemoldy is just really nicemoldy is just really nicemoldy is just really nicemoldy is just really nice
Can i count Bas rutten i know he only fought twice but he's is amazing.
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Old 06-28-2006, 07:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMCgrappler
Thanks for being the bright and shining example of "new to the sport." I recommend you buy the first 30 UFCs and tell me who is the best heavyweight and middleweight.

Ken Shamrock was the master of not continuing a tournament (either by loss or injury). He also never beat any real fighters.

Loss Rich Franklin TKO (Strikes) UFC-Ultimate Fighter Finale 4/9/2005 1 2:42
Win Kimo Leopoldo TKO (Knee) UFC 48-Payback 6/19/2004 1 1:26
Loss Tito Ortiz TKO (Corner Stoppage) UFC 40-Vendetta 11/22/2002 3 5:00
Loss Dan Severn Decision UFC 9-Motor City Madness 5/17/1996 1 30:00
Win Kimo Leopoldo Submission (Kneebar) UFC 8-David vs. Goliath 2/16/1996 1 4:24
Draw Oleg Taktarov Draw UFC 7-The Brawl in Buffalo 9/8/1995 1 33:00
Win Dan Severn Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 6-Clash of the Titans 7/14/1995 1 2:14
Draw Royce Gracie Draw UFC 5-The Return of the Beast 4/7/1995 1 36:00
Win Felix Mitchell Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:34
Win Christophe Leninger Submission (Strikes) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:49
Loss Royce Gracie Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 0:57
Win Patrick Smith Submission (Heel Hook) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 1:49

Have you ever seen Frank Shamrock?

Has he been banned from the UFC or something? He is not on the fighters list. He was the most dominant middleweight the UFC ever had.


Win Tito Ortiz Submission (Strikes) UFC 22-There Can Be Only One Champion 9/24/1999 4 4:42
Win John Lober Submission (Strikes) UFC Brazil-Ultimate Brazil 10/16/1998 1 7:40
Win Jeremy Horn Submission (Kneebar) UFC 17-Redemption 5/15/1998 1 16:28
Win Igor Zinoviev KO (Slam) UFC 16-Battle in the Bayou 3/13/1998 1 0:22
Win Kevin Jackson Submission (Armbar) UFC Japan-Ultimate Japan 1 12/21/1997 1 0:16

The records speak for themselves. The wrong Shamrock is in the hall of fame. Ken is a joke to the UFC and is only popular due to his WWF time.
No knowledgable fan holds Ken's UFC record in any high regard.
First, you got my attention by saying that Kimo is not a real fighter. He put up more of a fight against Royce that any other fighter in the first four UFCs (except maybe Rob Van Clief)

I completely agree with you about Frank Shamrock. The man is one hell of a fighter.

If we are going to judge on who has done the most for the UFC than the answer is Royce Gracie. If we are going to say who is the most dominant fighter in the UFC than the answer is pretty simple and I suggest looking at three things:

1) has held a UFC championship and defended it in a fight without a decision (good fighters can finish opponents without the judges)

2) has successfully defended his title multiple times

3) has no disputes on his ownership of the title (steriods like Barnett or a disputed decision)

This leads me to one conclusion for active UFC fighters: Chuck Liddell. But Jens Pulver also fits the description, as do a few others. Chuck is by far the most successful.
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Old 06-28-2006, 08:03 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
First, you got my attention by saying that Kimo is not a real fighter. He put up more of a fight against Royce that any other fighter in the first four UFCs (except maybe Rob Van Clief)
Kimo is one of those fighters who was very good in his early days but when he returned to the UFC in 2002 or 2003 like Tank and Shamrock, him and those two all weren't as good as they used to be. The only guy Kimo could beat when he got back was Tank. Tank couldn't beat anyone in the UFC when he returned, he lost three matches there. And Shamrock has only beaten Kimo when he returned in 2002 which is pretty sad and people fail to release this. But they were all very talented in their early UFC days and did a lot for this business along with Royce Gracie.
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Old 06-29-2006, 04:08 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I've been watching ufc since the beginning and I am a big fan like some of u are, here is a good opinion of who the best fighters were and are to this day in the UFC.

Heavyweight- between Arlovski and Sylvia, we'll find out at UfC 61

Lightheavyweight- between Chuck and Randy ( although Chuck beat him at the grudgematch, Randy accomplished more in the UFC.) It's a toss up for me.

Middleweight- I'd have to go with my man Frank Shamrock, undefeated, and he could teach Rick Franklin a lesson or two.

Welterweight-Although I don't like him that much I have to give my props to Matt Hughes he has proved himself over and over.

Lightweight- Not a big fan of this division but I think Ives Edwards is up there.

Lightweight- Jens Pulver hands down
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Old 06-29-2006, 04:12 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Lightweight- Jens Pulver hands down
Yeah, for UFC it would be Jens Pulver or Sean Sherk but I think Sean Sherk might stay in the welterweight division.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moldy
rutten has only faught twice but is amazing
He's faught more than twice in the UFC. Back in 1999 he dominated UFC. He is 29-4 I believe and Kimo will be lucky to pass a round with him at WFA lol. I can't wait. Post a live coverage of WFA man because I want to hear Bas beating Kimo up lol.
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Old 06-29-2006, 04:18 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Not really. You said he was a heavyweight when he was in middleweight and light heavyweight fights. Oh well, he might be a heavyweight, I don't know that much about the weight class s---.

He didn't dominate any class except in his early days. Royce Gracie and Dan Severn were more successful than Ken. And when Ken returned to the UFC he got owned and didn't dominate anyone anytime. Tito Ortiz sent him out of action for another two years, then he came back and was the role of a punching bag during a Rich Franklin fight.

But he has done a lot for the business. I mean without him the submissions would be crappy. Without him back then in the early days it would have just been knuckle fighting except with Gracie in the ring. He was sort of like Belfort and Abbott. Both were awesome in their early days but when they returned to the octagon it was a whole new game and they were molested in the ring.
No he was a heavy weight back in the day,And at that time he was a great fighter and beat most of the people.

As for Franklin and Tito, ye but ken's time is over.
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