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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 11:20 AM
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I keep trying to make people realize that if somebody walks around at 206 pounds he doesnt fight at HW, hell he doesnt even fight at LHW but rather most likely MW, it isnt a 60 pound weight diffrence that just happens to be where the cut off is, realistically even the smallest of HW's weight in over 220 pounds heck people dont realize Forrest Griffen is a huge LHW and probably walks around well over 225 pounds, The weight diffrence as far as a ratio isnt that much diffrent between somebody like Randy Couture and Shane Carwin than it was between BJ Penn and GSP and alot less people felt size played a role in that fight (I do but thats another argument)

but if you're looking at a guy who is 235 lbs and can't make the cut to LHW and he's fighting Brock Lesnar who's cutting to the heavyweight limit and by fight time is 275lbs, that's a 40lbs difference. It's different at the heavyweight end of the spectrum but i can see both sides.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 01:01 PM
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but if you're looking at a guy who is 235 lbs and can't make the cut to LHW and he's fighting Brock Lesnar who's cutting to the heavyweight limit and by fight time is 275lbs, that's a 40lbs difference. It's different at the heavyweight end of the spectrum but i can see both sides.
Exactly. I understand your point Toxic that nobody comes in at the bottom of the barrel weight. However, nobody really comes in at the bottom weight of any weight class. You never see a guy who weighs 187 fighting at LHW.

Fine, lets figure out what the most people can cut to make it down to LHW. I think Jay's estimate of 235 is pretty good. Nobody is going to make a 30lb cut. At least not a traditional weight cut (i.e. water weight).

So as Jay said, you have a guy weighing in at 235 against Brock who is really at 275+. 40lbs is a ridiculous gap that doesn't exist in any other weight class.

And we still need Bantamweight and Featherweight. I want to see some Mike Thomas Brown and Miguel Torres in the UFC damn it.


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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 01:07 PM
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This list is just about on point, but Brock's hammer fists don't even deserve an honorable mention. Rampage gets one for his left hook? What about his wicked slams? Those are ten times scarier than Matt Hughes' if only for the fact that Page is so much bigger and stronger than Matt. And Wand getting honorable mention for his windmills? What about HIS clinch, or head stomps, or even his head butts from Vale Tudo days(or the Guy Mezger fight )?
Simply put, a fighter with such little talent and so few actual fights like Brock doesn't get a signature move over kings of brutality like Jackson and Silva. Other than that, this list is great. Props for having Bas at the top with his liver shots. Those hurt me just watching them.
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 01:23 PM
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This list is just about on point, but Brock's hammer fists don't even deserve an honorable mention. Rampage gets one for his left hook? What about his wicked slams? Those are ten times scarier than Matt Hughes' if only for the fact that Page is so much bigger and stronger than Matt. And Wand getting honorable mention for his windmills? What about HIS clinch, or head stomps, or even his head butts from Vale Tudo days(or the Guy Mezger fight )?
Simply put, a fighter with such little talent and so few actual fights like Brock doesn't get a signature move over kings of brutality like Jackson and Silva. Other than that, this list is great. Props for having Bas at the top with his liver shots. Those hurt me just watching them.
Wrong thread bud...


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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 01:46 PM
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Wrong thread bud...
Haha, no joke huh? That's what I get for trying to post while lifted. My bad all...
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 02:19 PM
 
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Exactly. I understand your point Toxic that nobody comes in at the bottom of the barrel weight. However, nobody really comes in at the bottom weight of any weight class. You never see a guy who weighs 187 fighting at LHW.

Fine, lets figure out what the most people can cut to make it down to LHW. I think Jay's estimate of 235 is pretty good. Nobody is going to make a 30lb cut. At least not a traditional weight cut (i.e. water weight).

So as Jay said, you have a guy weighing in at 235 against Brock who is really at 275+. 40lbs is a ridiculous gap that doesn't exist in any other weight class.

And we still need Bantamweight and Featherweight. I want to see some Mike Thomas Brown and Miguel Torres in the UFC damn it.
But the fact is Brock is the only guy cutting to make HW and you cant build a weight class around 1 guys.




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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 02:27 PM
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I think 195 would be retarded, but I'd like to see the HW division stop at 240, then have no cap on the "SHW" division which would be anything above 240.




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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 03:07 PM
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The problem with a super heavyweight division is there will be no one to fight in it. It would be mostly fat cans who were too lazy to cut to heavyweight. They'd have Brock, Shane, some 600 lb punching bag sumo guy, Butterbean, and Bob Sapp as the big names. Honestly the weight classes in effect are enough if not too many in my opinion. Need diversity and more big name headliners? Start actual tournaments where the fighters have to fight more than every six months and fight multiple opponents in a given night.

The multiple classes did hurt boxing, but not as much as shady promoters and the fighters they hype up taking half year vacations between absurd pay checks. Start an open weight tournament under modified rules and let all these guys trying to play belt swap and saying they're the best prove it. Heck, have it in Japan if they won't sanction it here in the states. That'll help re-globalize the UFC and force more talent to either evolve or fall to the wayside.
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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 04:17 PM
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But the fact is Brock is the only guy cutting to make HW and you cant build a weight class around 1 guys.
I don't think that line of reasoning really holds water. You are basically saying that it is ok for Brock to have a significant size advantage over all of the other HW's because to remove that advantage, he would necessarily be excluded.


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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 04:19 PM
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i know a lot of people think it will thin out the quality but i look at it like this:

more champs = more cross division rivalries and multiple belt holders = more entertaining

i think that argument that goes something like 'there are too many fair weather fans of the sport to support a bunch more divisions' is a valid one but ultimately... hardcore fans will have no trouble following who has what belt and i'd love to see a guy like GSP or A.Silva holding 2 or 3 belts each.


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