When did Anderson Silva turn from a good fighter, into this unstoppable force? - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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When did Anderson Silva turn from a good fighter, into this unstoppable force?

Ive seen all of his fights in Pride. His wins and his losses. He had dynamic skills back then, but he was far from unbeatable. In his fight with Ryo Chonan, he was actually losing the standup. Can you beleive that, LOSING THE STANDUP TO RYO CHONAN!! Then he got submitted.

Then he goes over to Cage Rage becomes champ and looks pretty good. But noone considered him to be the the best MW in the world. At the time he entered the UFC he was like the 9th ranked MW in the world and was viewed as a dangerous striker, but far from unbeatable.

What I wanna know is what happened? I know he left Chute Box, but that cant be the reason.

Or perhaps he is the same fighter that just has improved gradually like every other fighter does over time.

Or has he just faught guys that matchup well against him. Lets see Leben (joke), Franklin (perfect matchup), Marquardt(no threat, Silva is better than him at everything), Lutter (if Lutter wasnt fat and out of shape he beats Silva), Hendo(abandoned his gameplan), Forrest(tailor made), Irvin(LOL),Cote(sigh, another inferior striker), Leites (finally a bjj guy, but he has terrible TD's and cardio).

Out of all these guys, Hendo and Lutter were the only ones who realistically had a shot at beating this guy. The rest were lambs being lead to the slaughter.

At 205, there alot of big strong grapplers that can give Silva trouble.

But what Im saying is the UFC has given him opponents that for the most part showcase his skills.

Id love for a Randy Couture, Ricardo Arona, or even Tito Ortiz to get there hands on him. Because his hand speed, footwork, and movement, is useless when a big strong grpplaer is on top of him.

And with Filho showing that he has a chin and can survive Manhoef's striking long enough to get the TD and submission. I would still give Filho as good a shot as any at beating Silva. Its doesnt mean Filho is a top 5 MW. It just means, he is the type of strong grappler that can beat Silva.

Looking back now, the so called "experts" had it wrong. When Silva faught Leben, he wasnt the 9th best MW in the world, he was the best. But even the best can be beat, it just depends on who you fight. And eventually Silva is gonna fight the wrong guy. And it is going to be one of the guys I mentioned. Just watch.

So back to topic. What changed in Anderson Silva? How did he improve so much? Was it who he faught? Change of camps? PED's? Or has he just been this good all along?
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Pretty Good post. Repped. Your right in all of this tbh. Lutter could've beaten A.S. He hasn't gone against a opponent who has stuck to his game plan. Henderson and Lutter were beating him. Lutte was out of shape and got caught. Henderson abbandond game plan. So everything you said i agree with.
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jdun11 View Post
Or has he just faught guys that matchup well against him. Lets see Leben (joke), Franklin (perfect matchup), Marquardt(no threat, Silva is better than him at everything), Lutter (if Lutter wasnt fat and out of shape he beats Silva), Hendo(abandoned his gameplan), Forrest(tailor made), Irvin(LOL),Cote(sigh, another inferior striker), Leites (finally a bjj guy, but he has terrible TD's and cardio).
your definitely down playing his wins right here. theres no way the silva that fought chonan would have done this well. marquardt at the time was meant to be silvas kryptonite. he was meant to come in, take silva down and dominate with ground n pound. franklin may not have been able to match silva in striking, but he was physically bigger and stronger and was thought to be able to control silva in the clinch. you can't downplay his fights just because he dominated them.

in that 2 year span from when he lost to chonan, and entered the ufc he had improved tremendously. losing to that submission pushed him to truly develop his ground game. he got his black belt under nogueira, and now he is very good on the ground.

he is still improving today, training with machida is doing wonders for him. he's more elusive than ever before. i think they just take a great approach at training in black house, im not sure what they do over there, but its working.


silvas weakness is and always will be his tdd. he's just so good though that you can't hope to take him down round after round, because sooner or later you'll be tko'd. out of the men you listed i'd say arona would be his toughest fight.
arona will need a good few fights to clear his ring rust before he steps in the cage with the likes of silva though.
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Old 08-15-2009, 03:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Here is why:

-to win standup against him you have to be faster and more accurate with better head movement than him, with atleast similar height and reach. None of his opponents have even come close.

-to win the ground game you have to get him down early in the round, you have to be fresh and you to have be one of the best ground fighters/bjj practitioners. Lutter and Hendo came close, but they didn't get him down with enough time and stamina remaining

so pick your battles and you'll see why no one is beating him, too slow standing up, tired, weak or out of time on the ground to beat him. It's not exactly a mystery, he just has the tools to beat every fighter placed in front of him thus far and he's had a little luck along the way. Nobody is unbeatable.
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Old 08-15-2009, 03:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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LOL the OP's post reeks of bias against Silva. "No he can't improve.. he just got lucky with those wins. Okay?". That's all you're basically trying to say. Dan Henderson fought a stupid plan thats why he lost right? All his other fights were tailormade for him also?

It has nothing to do with any of that. A.Silva has this habit of making good fighters look really bad and I mean really really bad. His striking is so precise. His guard is good. When was he ever really in trouble in the UFC?
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Old 08-15-2009, 03:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jdun11 View Post
Or has he just faught guys that matchup well against him. Lets see Leben (joke), Franklin (perfect matchup), Marquardt(no threat, Silva is better than him at everything), Lutter (if Lutter wasnt fat and out of shape he beats Silva), Hendo(abandoned his gameplan), Forrest(tailor made), Irvin(LOL),Cote(sigh, another inferior striker), Leites (finally a bjj guy, but he has terrible TD's and cardio).
And yet you most likely predicted Silva to lose about 75% of those.

With all due respect gents, jdun has always, and will always be out of the loop when it comes to Anderson. Just take his rants with a grain of salt because, well, that's what they're mostly worth. He's a very, very stubborn man on this issue.
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Old 08-15-2009, 04:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Good thread, but I definitely think you're playing down his wins. I've done it before though, I've talked about the Lutter fight like he got his ass kicked until Lutter gassed. Truth is he didn't, he got outgrappled at times but we'd expect that. When Silva was mounted by Lutter he reversed it, then when in Anderson's guard he postured to his feet allowing Silva to land an upkick, stunning him and causing him to fall into a triangle. Lutter has terrible conditioning, but the two pivotal events in that fight were mistakes by Lutter and pure skill from Silva. He doesn't reverse a BJJ specialist like Lutter from full mount by fluke, it was his flexibility and skill that allowed that. And he doesn't land upkicks by fluke or because the other guy is tired, he lands them because he has so much felxibility and awareness.

Against Henderson, and I've just rewatched this, Henderson takes him down (not really surprising) put does nothing significant for 3 minutes. Anderson controlled Henderson's posture while Henderson covered his mouth and hit him with small hammerfists. Then Henderson got into side control and Silva got him into his full guard straight away. Henderson controlled him for 3 minutes yes, could he do that for 5 rounds without getting KOd or sumbitted? Evidently not. Henderson had to get Anderson to commit before he could clinch and get the takedown, in the 2nd round Silva got more accurate and started landing. Henderson obviously starting to worry goes for a sloppy takedown and ends up getting subbed. So Henderson possibly didn't stick to the gameplan in the 2nd round, but that's easy to say when you're not the one getting Anderson's shin in your mouth.

Anderson didn't let Hendo set up another takedown and overwhelmed him to the point where he tried for a hopeless takedown. Again, the win was mostly down to Anderson's skill, against a fighter who is meant to be one of the types to beat him. The other being BJJ, but Lutter and Leites didn't have much luck.

Maybe if you get a good wrestler with a black belt in BJJ who has a good chin then Silva would have something to worry about. The fights where he didn't have it all his own way to start with were ended early because the other guy didn't have the full skillset to finish the job, and their number 1 strength (Hendo's wrestling and KO power and Lutter's BJJ) were simply not enough to get the job done. Anderon's skillset on the other hand was enough to get the job done, early.

When did he become so good? It must have been progressive, but his last 3 Cage Rage fights were all finishes, then he continued that trend in the UFC and finished every fight until Leites.
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Old 08-15-2009, 04:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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When did Anderson Silva turn from a good fighter, into this unstoppable force?
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Old 08-15-2009, 04:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You are such a ridiculous hater. How many times does it need to be said his foot was broken going into the Chonan fight he had no mobility. Going to blackhouse and training with Nog greatly improved his jitz and his standup has gone from really good to amazing just by progression of skills through training over all these years. I like how you make up reasons why Andy is going to lose EVERY fight he is in but then you downplay the skills of the people he destroys.
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Old 08-15-2009, 04:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Jdun what do you want me to say? He's a great striker. With mild skills everywhere else. Do you want me to tell you that when he meets another "great" at anything to do with the ground thats in shape he'll lose? Cause he would without a doubt, but thats not the popular opinion so I won't say that. Yea, he is unstoppable, thats what i mean :P

i mean lol.. did you expect me to say that MW is the weakest division in the ufc? I mean it really is, but im not going to say that.
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