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Old 12-10-2006, 01:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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He (like many other people) thought the sport was going to go under, so might aswell switch jerseys while your still worth something?
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Old 12-10-2006, 02:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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If you really want to know more about ken shamrock get a book called beyond the lions den. It covers his life all the way up to the fight against kimo. In that book he says at that point in time every thing was going wrong in his life (this was after his fight with Tito) his famly had alot of proble his dad would not talk to him he was in trouble mony wise ect. He said he hit "rock bottom". Vince talked to him and at first ken turned it down. vice called an hour latter and said "What do I have to do to get you to sign the contract. Ken signed it an he went to the wwf. Well even though he could have done alot in the ufc if he would have stayed I think he made the right choice trying to get his live back on track before going back to the ufc.
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Old 12-10-2006, 04:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punishment 101
lets actually take a prime Ken Shamrock of 1993-1996, the same man who couldnt even FINISH or decisevely beat a 1 dimensional Welterweight (170lber)
lol, royce gracie was a great fighter in the early days of the ufc, and even though ken lost in there first fight, there second fight was a draw that ken shouldve won by decision. Very ignorant statement.
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Old 12-10-2006, 05:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Punishment101[quote= lets actually take a prime Ken Shamrock of 1993-1996, the same man who couldnt even FINISH or decisevely beat a 1 dimensional Welterweight (170lber)MMA is way above and beyond the Ken Shamrock Era, nothing would have changed the outcome

[/QUOTE]
Boy, that's some funny stuff, are you kidding, Ken Shamrock in his prime would have wiped the floor with Tito and here is why:
1) In his prime Ken was alot stronger than Tito will ever be. Shamrock was a bull...
2) The Tournament style is not something Tito would have been able to handle ( I like Tito, but that's the truth )
3) Shamrock's conditioning was one of the best at that time, the man was a machine.
4) Tito would not be able to GNP ( we all know this is his strength ) and Shamrock was better on the ground at that time.
This is all hypothetical of course but down on paper a young Shamrock would not have been a cakewalk for Tito.
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Old 12-10-2006, 06:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamlena
Punishment101
Boy, that's some funny stuff, are you kidding, Ken Shamrock in his prime would have wiped the floor with Tito and here is why:
1) In his prime Ken was alot stronger than Tito will ever be. Shamrock was a bull...
2) The Tournament style is not something Tito would have been able to handle ( I like Tito, but that's the truth )
3) Shamrock's conditioning was one of the best at that time, the man was a machine.
4) Tito would not be able to GNP ( we all know this is his strength ) and Shamrock was better on the ground at that time.
This is all hypothetical of course but down on paper a young Shamrock would not have been a cakewalk for Tito.
Agreed.. Let me add to this a bit lol

You forgot to mention ref stoppages... How the refs (including Big John) let fights go A LOT further before stopping it.

Anyone remember Kenny vs Dan Severn?

Ken was so bloody you couldnt even see his fn FACE! GUess what>? WON THAT FIGHT TOO

lets look at their records for a sec here, I'll highlight the wins that mean something k? Excepting the fights between the two.

Ken Shamrock

Loss Kazushi Sakuraba TKO (Punch) PRIDE 30-Fully Loaded 10/23/2005 1 2:27
Loss Rich Franklin TKO (Strikes) UFC-Ultimate Fighter Finale 4/9/2005 1 2:42
Win Kimo Leopoldo TKO (Knee) UFC 48-Payback 6/19/2004 1 1:26
Loss Don Frye Decision (Split) PRIDE 19-Bad Blood 2/24/2002 3 5:00
Win Sam Adkins Submission (Kimura) WMMAA 1-MegaFights 8/10/2001 1 1:26
Loss Kazuyuki Fujita TKO (Corner Stoppage) PRIDE 10-Return of the Warriors 8/27/2000 1 6:46
Win Alexander Otsuka TKO (Strikes) PRIDE Grand Prix 2000-Finals 5/1/2000 1 9:43
Win Brian Johnston Submission (Forearm Choke) UU 96-Ultimate Ultimate 1996 12/7/1996 1 5:48
Loss Dan Severn Decision UFC 9-Motor City Madness 5/17/1996 1 30:00
Win Kimo Leopoldo Submission (Kneebar) UFC 8-David vs. Goliath 2/16/1996 1 4:24
Win Yoshiki Takahashi Decision (Lost Points) Pancrase-Truth 1 1/28/1996 1 20:00
Win Katsuomi Inagaki Submission Pancrase-Eyes Of Beast 7 12/14/1995 1 3:19
Draw Oleg Taktarov Draw UFC 7-The Brawl in Buffalo 9/8/1995 1 33:00
Win Larry Papadopoulos Submission (Achilles Lock) Pancrase-1995 Neo-Blood Tournament, Round 1 7/22/1995 1 2:18
Win Dan Severn Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 6-Clash of the Titans 7/14/1995 1 2:14
Loss Minoru Suzuki Submission (Kneebar) Pancrase-Eyes Of Beast 4 5/13/1995 1 2:14
Draw Royce Gracie Draw UFC 5-The Return of the Beast 4/7/1995 1 36:00
Win Bas Rutten Submission (Kneebar) Pancrase-Eyes Of Beast 2 3/10/1995 1 1:01
Win Leon Dijk Submission Pancrase-Eyes Of Beast 1 1/26/1995 1 4:45
Win Manabu Yamada Decision (Unanimous) Pancrase-King Of Pancrase Tournament, Round 2 12/17/1994 1 30:00
Win Masakatsu Funaki Submission Pancrase-King Of Pancrase Tournament, Round 2 12/17/1994 1 5:50
Win Maurice Smith Submission Pancrase-King of Pancrase Tournament, Round 1 12/16/1994 1 4:23
Win Alex Cook Submission Pancrase-King of Pancrase Tournament, Round 1 12/16/1994 1 1:31
Win Takaku Fuke Submission (Rear Naked Choke) Pancrase-Road To The Championship 5 10/15/1994 1 3:13
Win Felix Mitchell Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:34
Win Christophe Leninger Submission (Strikes) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 4:49
Loss Masakatsu Funaki Submission Pancrase-Road To The Championship 4 9/1/1994 1 2:30
Win Bas Rutten Submission Pancrase-Road To The Championship 3 7/26/1994 1 16:42
Win Matt Hume Submission (Armlock) Pancrase-Road To The Championship 2 7/6/1994 1 5:50
Win Ryushi Yanagisawa Submission Pancrase-Pancrash! 3 4/21/1994 1 7:30
Loss Minoru Suzuki Submission (Heelhook/Kneebar) Pancrase-Pancrash! 1 1/19/1994 1 7:37
Win Andre Van Den Oetelaar Submission Pancrase-Yes, We are Hybrid Wrestlers 4 12/8/1993 1 1:04
Loss Royce Gracie Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 0:57
Win Patrick Smith Submission (Heel Hook) UFC 1-The Beginning 11/12/1993 1 1:49
Win Takaku Fuke Submission Pancrase-Yes, We are Hybrid Wrestlers 3 11/8/1993 1 0:44
Win Yoshiki Takahashi Submission (Heel Hook) Pancrase-Yes, We are Hybrid Wrestlers 2 10/14/1993 1 12:23
Win Masakatsu Funaki Submission (Choke) Pancrase-Yes, We are Hybrid Wrestlers 1 9/21/1993 1 6:15



Tito :

Win Forrest Griffin Decision (Split) UFC 59-Reality Check 4/15/2006 3 5:00
Win Vitor Belfort Decision (Split) UFC 51-Super Saturday 2/5/2005 3 5:00
Win Patrick Cote Decision (Unanimous) UFC 50-The War of '04 10/22/2004 3 5:00
Loss Chuck Liddell KO (Punches) UFC 47-It's On 4/2/2004 2 0:38
Loss Randy Couture Decision (Unanimous) UFC 44-Undisputed 9/26/2003 5 5:00
Win Vladimir Matyushenko Decision (Unanimous) UFC 33-Victory in Vegas 9/28/2001 5 5:00
Win Elvis Sinosic TKO (Cut) UFC 32-Showdown in the Meadowlands 6/29/2001 1 3:32
Win Evan Tanner KO (Slam) UFC 30-Battle on the Boardwalk 2/23/2001 1 0:32
Win Yuki Kondo Submission (Neck Crank) UFC 29-Defense of the Belts 12/16/2000 1 1:52
Win Wanderlei Silva Decision (Unanimous) UFC 25-Ultimate Japan 3 4/14/2000 5 5:00
Loss Frank Shamrock Submission (Strikes) UFC 22-There Can Be Only One Champion 9/24/1999 4 4:42
Win Guy Mezger TKO (Strikes) UFC 19-Ultimate Young Guns 3/5/1999 1 9:56
Win Jerry Bohlander TKO (Strikes) UFC 18-Road to the Heavyweight Title 1/8/1999 1 14:31
Win Jeremy Screeton Submission (Strikes) WCNHBC-West Coast NHB Championships 1 12/8/1998 1 0:16
Loss Guy Mezger Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 13-The Ultimate Force 5/30/1997 1 3:00
Win Wes Albritton TKO (Strikes) UFC 13-The Ultimate Force 5/30/1997 1 0:31

Now looking at these 2 records... I see Ken winning Waaaaay more impressive fights and his only losses came from guys who are impressive in their own right! Hell he beat Bas Rutten TWICE! Not to mention my friend here pointed out the tournament style and beat DAN SEVERN after winning 3 fights!

Now lets look at Mr. BADBOY lol :

Beat Guy Metzger (which I give credit for, he did it more than once) LOST to Frank, beat an unseasoned Wandy, Sinosic I'll give him credit for, except it was stopped by a cut. Lost to an aging Randy and then to Chuck. Squeaked out a win against Belfort (which people argued about) and then with TUF winner (and newb) Forrest Griffin!

Did you notice MUCH more of Titos wins came by decisions?
Especially recently! At least Kenny finished his fights one way or another...

Forget it, I dont want to hear anymore about Tito or just about anyone else beating people like Ken Shamrock in their prime.

Give me a prime Shamrock, Gracie and Severn
you can have Ortiz, Lidell and Sylvia.

I'll bet my whole fn paqycheque I win every fn time.

Gimme a break, and smarten up lol

Last edited by johnbender : 12-10-2006 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 12-10-2006, 06:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Also remember that Ken got his start in pro wrestling. He was trained by Buzz Sawyer, and was bumping for Giant Baba before he got into MMA.

Money was the main reason.

About prime Ken beating current Tito, I don't know. I think Ken would have a good shot, but this is a tough one to choose. Tito would be wise enough to avoid Ken's leglocks, and could muscle Ken down if he wanted to.
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Old 12-10-2006, 06:49 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damone
Also remember that Ken got his start in pro wrestling. He was trained by Buzz Sawyer, and was bumping for Giant Baba before he got into MMA.

Money was the main reason.

About prime Ken beating current Tito, I don't know. I think Ken would have a good shot, but this is a tough one to choose. Tito would be wise enough to avoid Ken's leglocks, and could muscle Ken down if he wanted to.
I can agree he has a punchers chance, nothing more.

He might be smart enough to avoid leglocks, but he wouldnt out-muscle a prime Shamrock... there was a LOT of power behind those muscles back in the day.

You try slamming a Greco Roman wrestler like Dan Severn, who not only was fanominal at takedown defence, but outwieghted him BIG TIME.

No... Kenny was pretty strong back then too
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbender
I can agree he has a punchers chance, nothing more.

He might be smart enough to avoid leglocks, but he wouldnt out-muscle a prime Shamrock... there was a LOT of power behind those muscles back in the day.

You try slamming a Greco Roman wrestler like Dan Severn, who not only was fanominal at takedown defence, but outwieghted him BIG TIME.

No... Kenny was pretty strong back then too
Shamrock was an absolute bull in his prime, Tito is not even near the strength of Shamrock in his prime.
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
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no reli mentioned ken's speed. Ken was very fast for big guy back in the day. I remeber him taking the back of some fast guys

that is what i think he lost the most by going to the wwf
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Old 12-10-2006, 10:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbender
I can agree he has a punchers chance, nothing more.

He might be smart enough to avoid leglocks, but he wouldnt out-muscle a prime Shamrock... there was a LOT of power behind those muscles back in the day.

You try slamming a Greco Roman wrestler like Dan Severn, who not only was fanominal at takedown defence, but outwieghted him BIG TIME.

No... Kenny was pretty strong back then too
I'm not denying that Ken was very strong in his prime. But, Tito held down people like Guy Mezger & Wanderlei Silva. Tito also manhandled current Ken like he was a ragdoll(Yea, yea, I know, we're talking about prime Ken). Still, it's hard for me to pick who'd win, because they both have their own strengths.

I also thought Ken shined more in Pancrase than the UFC.

Well, the wear & tear of wrestling really slowed Ken's body down. Pancrase was also really hard on his body.
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