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Old 09-21-2009, 09:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Michael Carson View Post
That's because when a fight is standing it's fluid, it's in motion, when you throw a punch and the guy moves his head to get out of the way and you clip him in the back of his head, he moved to the wrong spot. So, it's perfectly legal to hit in the back of the head when the fight is standing, as you can never say where it's going to hit.

On the ground, however, you have control of where you hit the guy, so when you hit him in the back of the head, it's against the rules, as you can prevent from doing so.

As far as fighters training to hit in the back of the head, that would be quite difficult seeing as how fighters move their heads to avoid strikes based on the angle, and you can't really train to hit the back of the head when you don't know which angle he's going to move.

Besides, it has always happened in MMA, and it'll always happen, that's part of having someone throw punches at your face and you trying to avoid them.
yes, this ^
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Soakked View Post
You know what annoys me? When a fighter on the ground intentionally turns his head (back of the head) towards the direction of the punch. It's like they know that they cant get hit in the back of the head so they use that as a tactic. I've noticed that happens alot when an opponent has their back.
Eh... it's more manly to let them just hit you in the face? It's a natural response to tuck your head in like that, the fact that it's illegal is just a bonus.
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
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yea i don't think its dirty, i know what you're talking about but the punch probably would've landed on their face anyways, so a couple inches further back it wraps around and hit them in the side of the ear, just happens, should've blocked better or got out of the way, now a straight jackhammer forehead into the ground punch to the top of the spinal colum is what is illegal
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Carson View Post
That's because when a fight is standing it's fluid, it's in motion, when you throw a punch and the guy moves his head to get out of the way and you clip him in the back of his head, he moved to the wrong spot. So, it's perfectly legal to hit in the back of the head when the fight is standing, as you can never say where it's going to hit.

On the ground, however, you have control of where you hit the guy, so when you hit him in the back of the head, it's against the rules, as you can prevent from doing so.

As far as fighters training to hit in the back of the head, that would be quite difficult seeing as how fighters move their heads to avoid strikes based on the angle, and you can't really train to hit the back of the head when you don't know which angle he's going to move.

Besides, it has always happened in MMA, and it'll always happen, that's part of having someone throw punches at your face and you trying to avoid them.
I would have to disagree with you. You can't say that you have control just because you're on the ground. If you're standing and you "accidentally" clip someone in the back of the head, how is it any different from clipping someone accidentally when they are on the ground(Brock/Mir 1)? Brock was not intentionally aiming for the back of Mir's head, but he still hit it because Mir turned the back of his head into those punches.

I don't think it's that difficult to train for. You throw a hook and you try to extend it a little so you can wrap it around the opponent's head and possibly hit the back of the head. But of course this is only my opinion.
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Belfort nailed Franklin with a nasty hammerfist to the back of the head that made Franklin go limp. It was really bad but hey Belfort still won
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Accidents do happen, like Brock vs Mir I. I would certainly hope that someone doesn't intentionally turn into punches to force a stand up. Nor would I hope someone intentionally strikes the back of the head for an advantage. Belfort vs Franklin was 100% decided by an illegal shot(s) to the back of the head. Its very dangerous, the brain stem and the entire back of the head is a very sensitive area and a good shot can cause paralysis and death. Franklin got lucky last night, as those shots were ******* brutal.
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I would have to disagree with you. You can't say that you have control just because you're on the ground. If you're standing and you "accidentally" clip someone in the back of the head, how is it any different from clipping someone accidentally when they are on the ground(Brock/Mir 1)? Brock was not intentionally aiming for the back of Mir's head, but he still hit it because Mir turned the back of his head into those punches.

I don't think it's that difficult to train for. You throw a hook and you try to extend it a little so you can wrap it around the opponent's head and possibly hit the back of the head. But of course this is only my opinion.
When you're on the ground and you're on top of someone, he turns to the side, you can aim for the back of his head or for the side of his head. You can almost always aim where you want to when you are on the ground and in control. As such, the rule states no hitting in the back of the head. The distance of punches is very small on the ground, which is why almost all back of the heat shots are on the ground, as your punches come so quickly that when you aim for a part of their head, that's what you hit. You can pick and choose where you hit on the ground.

When the fight is standing, you have NO control whatsoever on your opponent, as well as being so far away that by the time your strike reaches where you want it to go, he has moved his head in whichever way he wanted, and you take a chance of clipping him in the back of the head.

Your Brock example doesn't really work. Mir put his head in that position so Brock couldn't hit him, Brock would have to stop, get a new position/posture, and then hit more, as it is illegal to hit in the back of the head. That was Mir's strategy at that moment to control Brock's GnP, to put him in a position where he couldn't hurt Mir, as he could only hit the back of his head. The whole thing about that is the ref didn't call it a warning as he should have, that's why it's such a big deal. Usually there are a few warnings then a point, as hitting once in the back of the head when he is moving isn't a point taking move, but if you do it multiple times it is, as you have general control of where you hit on the ground.

Jones vs. Bonnar is the perfect example. He uses that nice spinning elbow to hit Bonnar, but it ended up hitting him in the back of the head. It wasn't illegal as it was in motion, you cannot tell where that hit was going to go, it's impossible to know.
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:53 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Carson View Post
When you're on the ground and you're on top of someone, he turns to the side, you can aim for the back of his head or for the side of his head. You can almost always aim where you want to when you are on the ground and in control. As such, the rule states no hitting in the back of the head. The distance of punches is very small on the ground, which is why almost all back of the heat shots are on the ground, as your punches come so quickly that when you aim for a part of their head, that's what you hit. You can pick and choose where you hit on the ground.

When the fight is standing, you have NO control whatsoever on your opponent, as well as being so far away that by the time your strike reaches where you want it to go, he has moved his head in whichever way he wanted, and you take a chance of clipping him in the back of the head.

Your Brock example doesn't really work. Mir put his head in that position so Brock couldn't hit him, Brock would have to stop, get a new position/posture, and then hit more, as it is illegal to hit in the back of the head. That was Mir's strategy at that moment to control Brock's GnP, to put him in a position where he couldn't hurt Mir, as he could only hit the back of his head. The whole thing about that is the ref didn't call it a warning as he should have, that's why it's such a big deal. Usually there are a few warnings then a point, as hitting once in the back of the head when he is moving isn't a point taking move, but if you do it multiple times it is, as you have general control of where you hit on the ground.

Jones vs. Bonnar is the perfect example. He uses that nice spinning elbow to hit Bonnar, but it ended up hitting him in the back of the head. It wasn't illegal as it was in motion, you cannot tell where that hit was going to go, it's impossible to know.
You are right that, yes, you do have some control of the opponents on the ground. But standing, to some extent you can have control via clinch. If you clinch with someone, you might as well throw a looping hook that will hit the person in the back of the head even if they use their arm to block the side of their head.
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:59 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Slug View Post
You are right that, yes, you do have some control of the opponents on the ground. But standing, to some extent you can have control via clinch. If you clinch with someone, you might as well throw a looping hook that will hit the person in the back of the head even if they use their arm to block the side of their head.
Well, in the clinch you have some control, that's a whole different story than "standing", as you're not exchanging strikes, you're close enough to each other to hit where you want to hit. As far as that being a strategy, you couldn't do it too well, as as soon as you do it it'll be seen. It would be very obvious, as your opponent is facing you, so hitting them in the back of the head means you would have to go out of your want to aim for the back of the head.
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Old 09-22-2009, 02:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
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To be fair Lesnar was just about to get armbarred when Mazzagati stood them up. It infact hurt Mir more than Lesnar like Mir said on the ufc 100 countdown.
I have to disagree. Yeah, Mir says he was about to throw some slick armbar, but all he was really gonna throw was a blanket over himself to go to sleep. I've rewatched that fight several times. All Mir was doing was flailing around and getting donkey konged. Mazz gifted that stoppage, and Brock put the bow on it with an amateur mistake. I hate to argue in Brock's favor on anything, but thats the way I see it.

Main point, though, is that Mazz stood it up and took a point where he would have issued a warning in any other fight; and with the trend I've been seeing lately it might well have been ignored and stopped and called a TKO.
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