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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-25-2009, 07:39 AM
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Heres the thing. Rua is a pure Mua thai fighter , even uses the traditonal stance and everything. Who none the better to emulate Rua's kicking and Mua thai then Anderson silva. Silva can easily emulate that same kick a thousand times in any direction, shit probably better then Rua's himself lol. With that being said , for sure Mach his father/brother and Andy will hit the gym when he's all healed up. And Andy is gonna throw that kick on Lyoto a billion time till he learns to defend it. Or make a new Karate technique to defend it. All champs or fighters for that matter always learn from losses. Obviously Lyoto lost this fight , tho 3 people in this earth didnt seem to think so otherwise, but that's beside the point. Even tho he's still the champ , he'll definetly learn from this and will most likely be ready and have an answer for Rua come rematch time.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-25-2009, 07:51 AM
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I think it was a great test for Machida, Rua's style is so agressive that its testing for someone like Lyoto. I think he'll tweak his style to suit his fighter, perhaps his homework on Rua wasn't quite good enough.

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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-25-2009, 08:48 AM
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Personally thought it was Shogun's speed causing Machida problems more than leg kicks or anything. Shogun was beating him to the shot - something I haven't seend before.
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-25-2009, 10:05 AM
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Personally thought it was Shogun's speed causing Machida problems more than leg kicks or anything. Shogun was beating him to the shot - something I haven't seend before.
I agree it's not the kicks. Muay thai kicks aren't new to Machida. He knows them well & against anyone else he would've been able to avoid them. But with pace & speed Shogun was pressing at him with he didnt get a chance to set himself up like he usally does in jumping in & out of the pocket. His karate's been exposed, there's no correcting it unless he completely change's style & add new attack tatics. Take Chuck Lidell for example, his style was figured out & everyone else after the Rampage knockout capitalized on it. But than again with Machida, I only think Shogun can give him the trouble no one else in the LHW has the muay thai technique of his caliber.

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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-25-2009, 10:34 AM
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In the fight that I watched, almost every time Shogun did a body kick he was getting hit in the face, its just that the legs kicks are loud and they look harder so the crowd gets into it more. To judges though, hits to the head > body kicks, even if they don't "look" as bad.

I can see why some might think Shogun won the fight, but it wasn't as one sided as many of you think it was.
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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-25-2009, 11:00 AM
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Personally thought it was Shogun's speed causing Machida problems more than leg kicks or anything. Shogun was beating him to the shot - something I haven't seend before.
It's the speed and also Shogun's unorthodox style & timing, the strikes don't come in when Machida thinks they should and the angles are a bit funny as well. Machida has blinding reaction speed, but also needs to anticipate when the strikes are coming in to time his counters, it's his anticipation which makes him such a deadly counterstriker.

Against fighters with more conventional styles such as Rashad or Thiago Silva, Machida can get their timing & body language figured out so even with a fast fighter like Rashad he can anticipate the strikes and effectively counter them.

Against Shogun he had to rely almost solely on his reaction speed, he had a lot of difficulty trying to anticipate when & what Shogun was going to do to him. On top of that, Shogun came in with a great plan to take out his legs and slow him down some more. Up until Shogun, everyone was trying to punch or kick Machida in the head which is about the dumbest thing you can do given Machida's stance & style. He wants you to try and take shots at his head because he knows it's damn near impossible to connect, and if you miss it's a left straight to the face from Machida. Shogun was smart and worked over Machida's legs & body instead, hit the targets that you can hit and worry about the head later.

It's a refinement of the strategy he used against Chuck Liddell, take out the legs to take away the movement & power, then hit the head when you have the chance. Shogun opened that fight with a legkick and a couple minutes later Chuck was limping around the Octagon, a few more knees to the legs in the clinch and Chuck's power was gone, after that it was all over.
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-25-2009, 11:12 AM
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As others have said, I think this simply says more about Rua than it does about Machida. I still believe, and I'm hardly a die-hard Lyoto fan, that Machida is capable of laying waste to 3/4s of the LHW division. But Rua showed last night that he, too, is a part of that upper echelon of UFC fighters, and so it comes as no surprise to me that he was able to give Machida problems. I always knew that if Shogun could return to form he would pose problems for any and everyone at LHW, and he proved that last night. We need remember that Machida has handed some rather lopsided defeats to some very talented fighters. That he was finally challenged last night is not at all reason to question his skills, but more so reason to tout the return of a Shogun who turned many heads back in the days of Pride. Lyoto said his next performance will be more convincing. I tend to believe him.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-25-2009, 11:14 AM
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In the fight that I watched, almost every time Shogun did a body kick he was getting hit in the face, its just that the legs kicks are loud and they look harder so the crowd gets into it more. To judges though, hits to the head > body kicks, even if they don't "look" as bad.

I can see why some might think Shogun won the fight, but it wasn't as one sided as many of you think it was.
not really, if that was the case Chuck would've beat Jardine. And the loud noise you refer to isn't smoke and mirrors man, there is a reason a leg kick from Shogun is louder than a karate jab, because it is hitting 3 times harder. Also, a lot of Machida's so called counter punches didn't land that flush, just like his knees, from certain angles they looked good, but in the replay not one knee landed to Rua's face or head, most missed and the others hit him in the body. None of the knees landed like the one against tito though except in the openeing minutes of the first round. Now when Shogun did that jump kick to the body, that was a good coutner by Machida and it knocked Rua off balance, but what really did more damage, it was aparent the body and leg work was adding up and Machida slowed at the end of the fight, i bet he can hardly move today, i'd put a lot of money on it
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-25-2009, 11:34 AM
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not really, if that was the case Chuck would've beat Jardine. And the loud noise you refer to isn't smoke and mirrors man, there is a reason a leg kick from Shogun is louder than a karate jab, because it is hitting 3 times harder. Also, a lot of Machida's so called counter punches didn't land that flush, just like his knees, from certain angles they looked good, but in the replay not one knee landed to Rua's face or head, most missed and the others hit him in the body. None of the knees landed like the one against tito though except in the openeing minutes of the first round. Now when Shogun did that jump kick to the body, that was a good coutner by Machida and it knocked Rua off balance, but what really did more damage, it was aparent the body and leg work was adding up and Machida slowed at the end of the fight, i bet he can hardly move today, i'd put a lot of money on it
I'm gonna have to agree with you here. Those counters weren't landing very well, and on top of that, they weren't doing any damage. Lyoto was visibly affected and impeded by the damage he took from the body and leg kicks. The same cannot be said about Shogun.

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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 10-25-2009, 12:53 PM
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Hard to answer really IMO, it doesn't really need to go anywhere. It does need to incorporate a defense for the leg kicks(Lyoto reminded me of Rampage just eating them) but basically there is something else to work on defending you incorporate that into his training. The same training that won him the fight with his effective countering that Goldie and Joe said ZERO about.....

Here's what I overwhelmingly remember about last night....


Shogun landing nasty leg kick...Rogan freaks...at the point Rogan is freaking Lyoto has landed 3-4 head shot flush and not a word of them, then that turned into " he's just landing those leg kicks" with no comment on Lyoto's countering....

If your an honest MMA fan, go back rewatch the fight and focus soley on Machida's countering....even if you hate the guy you will see he is landing and then pay attention to see if you hear Rogan or Goldie saying a word about those counters.......THE DIDNT.....

People on the forum are smart, some people get wrapped up in what they are told from the UFC....example...Joe or Goldie will talk a fighter up when we all know that said fighter isn't all they are trying to make him out to be.....like listening to the way they described Alves before he fought GSP...trying to bring Alves to that level that GSP is in everyones mind, but in the wash the truth comes out....
Mute the fight watch it ten times then watch it the 11th listening to Joe and Goldie.....

I think the Judges saw alot more than we were....

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