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Old 10-28-2009, 08:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Dissecting Machida vs Shogun

Connected strikes only + a few notable incidents.

Round 1

4:46 - Shogun lands nice left hook
4:47 - Machida lands 4 knees to body in clinch
4:10 - Machida left kick to upper body
4:05 - Shogun Right kick to inner thigh
4:02 - Machida Left knee to chest
3:46 - Shogun 3 knees to thigh from the clinch
3:20 - Shogun Right knee to body
3:13 - Shugun Blocks Lyotos left kick and counters with right kick to inner thigh
3:00 - Machida misses with flying knee before stuffing Shoguns takedown
2:57 - Shogun connects with 2 knees to legs in the clinch
2:07 - Machida connects with light kick to the leg but following punch is blocked
1:45 - Shogun lands nice body knee and just avoids Lyotos counter.
1:00 - Both Shogun and Machida land leg kicks in the same instance
0:53 - Lyoto lands a left kick to body
0:49 - Shogun lands a kick on Machidas bum followed by a nice right hook to the head
0:22 - Shogun lands nice right leg body kick which Lyoto counters immediatly with a right kick to shoguns knee.

Round 2

4:40 - Shogun lands a lovely straight left counter
4:38 - Shogun clips knee with right kick
4:06 - Shogun lands a right kick counter to Lyotos thigh
4:05 - Lyoto lands a two punch combo to the head. ( although the angle made this difficult to confirm 100% )
3:50 - Shogun right kick to the mid section somewhere. ( very fast )
3:19 - Shogun right knee to chest immediatly countered by right kick from Lyoto to shoguns upper leg/arse.
3:09 - Shogun tries for a take down but gets stuffed
2:32 - Machida left knee to Shoguns knee
1:37 - Machida right kick to shoguns planted shin
1:35 - Shogun left knee to the body counter. Nice.
1:29 - Shogun connects with left knee to the body with Machida countering with a straight left follewed by a left kick to the knee of standing leg. These guys rock!
1:19 - Machida looks like he connected with a right kick to thigh, but angle was poor.
0:51 - Machida left knee to chest
0:45 - Shogun lands 10 knees to Lyotos legs from the following clinch
0.28 - Machida lands a knee from the clinch

Round 3

4:48 - Another mad exchange. Shogun right kick to body, countered my a Machida straight left and left kick to inside knee. All inside 1/4 of a second. Amazing.
4:32 - Machida lands hard right to Shoguns head followed by left kick to body
4:30 - Shogun right kick to inner thigh and Machida left kick to body
4:04 - Shogun left kick to body
3:18 - Lyoto lands left body kick and Shogun also lands a right kick to inside knee
2:55 - Rua lands right kick to upper thigh which Machida counters with a straight right to the head
2:35 - Shogun lands knee to leg in the clinch and an elbow to the head as they disengage.
2:20 - Machida catches shoguns knee with left kick but shogun couunters with a hard right kick to the knee.
2:01 - Shogun connects with right kick to inner thigh and Machida connects with left kick to the body. Both hard shot.
1:51 - Shogun counters Lyoto with a hard right kick to the body. Again, Lyoto finishes with a left kick to the inside knee of the standing leg.
1:04 - Shogun right kick to upper thigh
1:02 - Machida knee to the body from the clinch
0:35 - Machida feints with a left, Shogun counters with his trademark right kick to thigh which opens him up for a Machida hard right. Wow. Just Wow.
0:34 - Machida right hook connects follwed by right knee to Shoguns body
0:31 - Machida lands a left hook
0:30 - Shogun covers up then throws a quick left hook. Nice punch
0:29 - A hard Machida left kick to the body. Shogun just gets enough on it to stop big damage
0:27 - Lots of missed punches in the "flurry" finishing with a sweet Shogun right hook that rocks Machida into a clinch

Round 4

3:50 - Shogun right inside leg kick counter.
3:14 - Machida right punch to the body (?) and Shogun counters with right kick to body.
3:09 - Machida high kick to Shoguns head. Nice.
3:01 - Machida slips and Shogun is on him like hookers on coke.
2:36 - Shoguns takedown attempt ends and they disengage.
2:19 - Hard shogun right kick to the outside of Lyotos leg.
2:18 - Lyoto slips a short right through Shoguns guard to the face.
2:15 - Shogun knee to body I think. The angle sucked.
1:46 - Shogun right kick to outside knee. Ouch.
1:32 - Shogun clinches
1:28 - Shogun lands short right elbow as they disengage
1:04 - Shogun hard right knee to Lyotos body.
0:45 - Shoddy angle, but looks like Shogun right kick to outer thigh.

Round 5

4:51 - Shogun right kick to inside thigh
4:33 - Shogun crunching right kick to Lyotos outer thigh. Really nice.
3:31 - Shogun catches Machidas leg and connects with a nice right kick to the inside knee.
2:46 - Machida hard right knee to body.
2:20 - They clinch for a while each throwing a knee to the others thigh.
1:42 - Disengaging from the clinch, Shogun throws a left elbow and a right hook. I dont think the elbow connected though.
1:20 - Lyoto left knee to the body

END

All done frame by frame. I'm glad I did it. Saw some amazing stuff.

Connected strikes:-

Round 1 - Shogun 14 - Machida 10
round 2 - 17 - 10
round 3 - 14 - 16
round 4 - 8 - 3
round 5 - 6 - 3

What I think:-

- Great f**king fight. It was very close. If either fighter won it would be fair.

- Shogun landed more strikes than Machida without a doubt. If you factor in those 10 knees at 0:45 of round two, it makes it 59 to 42 connected strikes. The quality of the strikes is a different issue. Point is, Shogun did outstrike Lyoto in terms of numbers. To those saying it was 2:1, prove it.

- That super sharp kick to the inside knee of the standing leg, that Lyoto hit Rua with after some of his heaviest body kicks is the work of genius. I saw many of the initial strikes and counters on the first few watches but completely missed this kick. I think it was stuff like this that won it for him. Rightly or wrongly, shit like this impresses judges.

- I still think Machida won the first 3 rounds. Yes shogun connected with more shots, but many of those were knees in the clinch. I can easily see how the judges and indeed myself, can be swayed by Machidas nuances and touches. We are human after all and enjoy good art.

- Round 3 is right up there with the best rounds of MMA I've ever seen.

- This fight was amazing. Even more so know I've dissected it. Anybody still calling it a robbery is not being fair. Shogun was doing the more obvious damage but please don't discount the lovely touches from Machida. They both won really. They will both come back monsters for that experience.

- Fightmetric is full of shit.

That's my thoughts. Draw your own conclusions. I promise you the breakdown is not biased in any way and I tried to be clear which strikes were hard. I appreciate there are 1089 other Shogun/Machida threads but after all the effort I put in, I wanted to see it in lights!

Peace.

Last edited by Soojooko : 10-28-2009 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Good job. Fair and balanced, I likey.

I did something similar to this for the Karo Parisyan vs Diego Sanchez fight when I first signed on this site. Nobody accepted it. Everyone still said Diego won convincingly. I still disagree with that decision to this day, and the stats were pretty lopsided in Karo's favor. He had like 7 takedowns to Diego's 1, had more accumulated time in dominant position, and he landed quite a few more strikes than Diego did. But nobody wanted to admit the decision was technically wrong for some reason (probably because Diego knocked Karo's tooth out and also finished the 3rd round strong), kinda pissed me off cuz it took so long for me to write up. Oh well, that's neither here nor there. Good job anyways. I still can't decide who won this Lyoto/Shogun fight.
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Thing is, I don't think my write up is conclusive at all! It provides ammunition for both arguments. Which is good... as it shows what ive been saying all along : It was a close fight and certainly debatable. My main aim was to conclude that the fight was close and to discredit Fightmetric.
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I actually wanted to do something like this but I'm studying for midterms gaaah.
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
Thing is, I don't think my write up is conclusive at all! It provides ammunition for both arguments. Which is good...
Thats not a good thing dude now this arguement will NEVER end!
Great write up though you have obviously put alot of effort in to it and it's nice to see you're unbiased even though Machida is in your avatar.
Regardless of the outcome it was an amazing battle with so much skill and tactics it was truely awsome to watch. I must say Shogun was so classy in the octagon after he lost the decision just a class act. I Still think Shogun won but it wasn't robbery at all. Bring on the rematch ASAP!
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Good work. Personally I don't count knees to the leg in the clinch very highly.

More to the point this is beyond the ability of judges to calculate in a few minutes.

Decisions are a bad thing, judges are unable to decide accurately who did the best.
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Good work. Personally I don't count knees to the leg in the clinch very highly.

More to the point this is beyond the ability of judges to calculate in a few minutes.

Decisions are a bad thing, judges are unable to decide accurately who did the best.
Agreed.
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Old 10-28-2009, 02:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
Connected strikes only.

Round 1

4:46 - Shogun lands nice left hook
4:47 - Machida lands 4 knees to body in clinch
4:10 - Machida left kick to upper body
4:05 - Shogun Right kick to inner thigh
4:02 - Machida Left knee to chest
3:46 - Shogun 3 knees to thigh from the clinch
3:20 - Shogun Right knee to body
3:13 - Shugun Blocks Lyotos left kick and counters with right kick to inner thigh
3:00 - Machida misses with flying knee before stuffing Shoguns takedown
2:57 - Shogun connects with 2 knees to legs in the clinch
2:07 - Machida connects with light kick to the leg but following punch is blocked
1:45 - Shogun lands nice body knee and just avoids Lyotos counter.
1:00 - Both Shogun and Machida land leg kicks in the same instance
0:53 - Lyoto lands a left kick to body
0:49 - Shogun lands a kick on Machidas bum followed by a nice right hook to the head
0:22 - Shogun lands nice right leg body kick which Lyoto counters immediatly with a right kick to shoguns knee.

Round 2

4:40 - Shogun lands a lovely straight left counter
4:38 - Shogun clips knee with right kick
4:06 - Shogun lands a right kick counter to Lyotos thigh
4:05 - Lyoto lands a two punch combo to the head. ( although the angle made this difficult to confirm 100% )
3:50 - Shogun right kick to the mid section somewhere. ( very fast )
3:19 - Shogun right knee to chest immediatly countered by right kick from Lyoto to shoguns upper leg/arse.
3:09 - Shogun tries for a take down but gets stuffed
2:32 - Machida left knee to Shoguns knee
1:37 - Machida right kick to shoguns planted shin
1:35 - Shogun left knee to the body counter. Nice.
1:29 - Shogun connects with left knee to the body with Machida countering with a straight left follewed by a left kick to the knee of standing leg. These guys rock!
1:19 - Machida looks like he connected with a right kick to thigh, but angle was poor.
0:51 - Machida left knee to chest
0:45 - Shogun lands 10 knees to Lyotos legs from the following clinch
0.28 - Machida lands a knee from the clinch

Round 3

4:48 - Another mad exchange. Shogun right kick to body, countered my a Machida straight left and left kick to inside knee. All inside 1/4 of a second. Amazing.
4:32 - Machida lands hard right to Shoguns head followed by left kick to body
4:30 - Shogun right kick to inner thigh and Machida left kick to body
4:04 - Shogun left kick to body
3:18 - Lyoto lands left body kick and Shogun also lands a right kick to inside knee
2:55 - Rua lands right kick to upper thigh which Machida counters with a straight right to the head
2:35 - Shogun lands knee to leg in the clinch and an elbow to the head as they disengage.
2:20 - Machida catches shoguns knee with left kick but shogun couunters with a hard right kick to the knee.
2:01 - Shogun connects with right kick to inner thigh and Machida connects with left kick to the body. Both hard shot.
1:51 - Shogun counters Lyoto with a hard right kick to the body. Again, Lyoto finishes with a left kick to the inside knee of the standing leg.
1:04 - Shogun right kick to upper thigh
1:02 - Machida knee to the body from the clinch
0:35 - Machida feints with a left, Shogun counters with his trademark right kick to thigh which opens him up for a Machida hard right. Wow. Just Wow.
0:34 - Machida right hook connects follwed by right knee to Shoguns body
0:31 - Machida lands a left hook
0:30 - Shogun covers up then throws a quick left hook. Nice punch
0:29 - A hard Machida left kick to the body. Shogun just gets enough on it to stop big damage
0:27 - Lots of missed punches in the "flurry" finishing with a sweet Shogun right hook that rocks Machida into a clinch

Round 4

3:50 - Shogun right inside leg kick counter.
3:14 - Machida right punch to the body (?) and Shogun counters with right kick to body.
3:09 - Machida high kick to Shoguns head. Nice.
3:01 - Machida slips and Shogun is on him like hookers on coke.
2:36 - Shoguns takedown attempt ends and they disengage.
2:19 - Hard shogun right kick to the outside of Lyotos leg.
2:18 - Lyoto slips a short right through Shoguns guard to the face.
2:15 - Shogun knee to body I think. The angle sucked.
1:46 - Shogun right kick to outside knee. Ouch.
1:32 - Shogun clinches
1:28 - Shogun lands short right elbow as they disengage
1:04 - Shogun hard right knee to Lyotos body.
0:45 - Shoddy angle, but looks like Shogun right kick to outer thigh.

Round 5

4:51 - Shogun right kick to inside thigh
4:33 - Shogun crunching right kick to Lyotos outer thigh. Really nice.
3:31 - Shogun catches Machidas leg and connects with a nice right kick to the inside knee.
2:46 - Machida hard right knee to body.
2:20 - They clinch for a while each throwing a knee to the others thigh.
1:42 - Disengaging from the clinch, Shogun throws a left elbow and a right hook. I dont think the elbow connected though.
1:20 - Lyoto left knee to the body

END

All done frame by frame. I'm glad I did it. Saw some amazing stuff.

Connected strikes:-

Round 1 - Shogun 14 - Machida 10
round 2 - 17 - 10
round 3 - 14 - 16
round 4 - 8 - 3
round 5 - 6 - 3

What I think:-

- Great f**king fight. It was very close. If either fighter won it would be fair.

- Shogun landed more strikes than Machida without a doubt. If you factor in those 10 knees at 0:45 of round two, it makes it 59 to 42 connected strikes. The quality of the strikes is a different issue. Point is, Shogun did outstrike Lyoto in terms of numbers. To those saying it was 2:1, prove it.

- That super sharp kick to the inside knee of the standing leg, that Lyoto hit Rua with after some of his heaviest body kicks is the work of genius. I saw many of the initial strikes and counters on the first few watches but completely missed this kick. I think it was stuff like this that won it for him. Rightly or wrongly, shit like this impresses judges.

- I still think Machida won the first 3 rounds. Yes shogun connected with more shots, but many of those were knees in the clinch. I can easily see how the judges and indeed myself, can be swayed by Machidas nuances and touches. We are human after all and enjoy good art.

- Round 3 is right up there with the best rounds of MMA I've ever seen.

- This fight was amazing. Even more so know I've dissected it. Anybody still calling it a robbery is not being fair. Shogun was doing the more obvious damage but please don't discount the lovely touches from Machida. They both won really. They will both come back monsters for that experience.

- Fightmetric is full of shit.

That's my thoughts. Draw your own conclusions. I promise you the breakdown is not biased in any way and I tried to be clear which strikes were hard. I appreciate there are 1089 other Shogun/Machida threads but after all the effort I put in, I wanted to see it in lights!

Peace.

Thanks for the effort ad the breakdown dude it was awesome and unbiased and I think it will always be controversial, the 1st round I mean, but other wise great job....repped...

EDIT: Gotta spread some rep like a cheap whore 1st...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belfort View Post
Thats not a good thing dude now this arguement will NEVER end!
Great write up though you have obviously put alot of effort in to it and it's nice to see you're unbiased even though Machida is in your avatar.
Regardless of the outcome it was an amazing battle with so much skill and tactics it was truely awsome to watch. I must say Shogun was so classy in the octagon after he lost the decision just a class act. I Still think Shogun won but it wasn't robbery at all. Bring on the rematch ASAP!

Agreed...
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Old 10-28-2009, 02:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I like the effort you put in, nice work. I've seen the fight maybe a million times so I probably wont watch it again to check accuracy but I trust that you've been unbiased and fair.

All I can say is thank god for the rematch, imagine the outrage if there wasn't one.
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Old 10-28-2009, 04:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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