Big Nog vs. Cain Velasquez at UFC 108 - Page 8 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #71 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-10-2009, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
Yeah he'd be humongous and freakishly strong, probably with a shit gas tank though, just as Coleman and Randleman.
i really dont know the effect of roids on cardio, does it make you gas faster?? Because so many Pride guys looked better back then, then now and didnt seem to gas.

Does this mean Overeem will gas fast?? If so he would have no shot in the UFC. I just dont see anybody doing 1st round KOs on the top guys in the UFC consistently.

Back on topic with a slice of above my boy Cain doesnt gas, i really believe it, in fact, i never really seen him look fatigued or take extended breaks when controlling on the ground, infact, altho his shots dont have overwhelming power from the GnP he is about the busiest GnP guy outside of GSP i can name. Its truely remarkable, watch his fights, it's go go go even 3 rounds with Kongo, 3 rounds of basically pure grappling. Now the real question is the question ppl had about GSP many years ago aswell.... can he do that vs the top guys?? Im VERY excited (understatement of the year) to find out. Beating Nog leaves no doubt, you all cant praise him endlessly and then discredit a win over him (oh wait, Frank Mir, so i guess you can!!!).

Khov, i understand what you are saying about JDS, the kid has loads of potential too, but i feel much more confident with guys coming in off ground games then striking, whereas you seem to be more comfortable with backing strikers. I think the conventional wisdom is to take a great ground game guy over a great striker (unless striker has incredible TDD and/or wrestling aswell). Junior is a kickboxer with a purple belt in BJJ and no wrestling pedigree?? I really think this matchup favors Cain unless JDS finds a way to keep it standing, his resume doesnt have one take down artist the calibre of Cain on it in my opinion. I would feel crappy if JDS beats Gonzaga and doesnt get a title shot if i were a strong supporter of him aswell. Also, who would JDS fight if he beats Gonzaga but the winner of Nog/Cain gets winner of Carwin/Lesnar?? Carwin??
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post #72 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Calminian View Post
Not it's not non-sense. If someone can get down to LHW consistently, then they are a natural LHW. He is a natural LHW.
Dude just let it go. Pride Coleman could NOT get down to 205, no way. And again, he was bigger and much stronger than Nog.

I think it's (edit) wrong to think that Randy was close to being finished. Randy was never in any danger.
Ugh... Randy even got flash KOd on the second KD. Look at the way he falls and how his legs go limp under him for a second.

Obviously you're a huge Nog fan, so if that's how you saw it, that's how you saw it. But I don't recall any 10-8 rounds on the scorecards. Maybe we're just looking at the word "owned" differently.
Obviously?? I'm not a big fan of Nog, let alone a "huge fan" of his. I actually like Randy more than Nog. I had Randy winning by UD and was rooting for him as I had money on him.

Whenever I'm breaking down or predicting a fight, I try to put my love/hate for certain fighters to the side and think logically. Thing that you clearly failed to do in your Fedor/Brett fight prediction.

Couture did the same thing. Penn went up in weight and held the WW belt (didn't he?). Doesn't mean they were naturally at that weight.
Your just contradicting yourself here. First, BJ held it but unlike Randy didn't defend. Second, BJ winning the WW title by rocking and subbing a bigger, much stronger opponent in Matt Hughes just proves that size doesnt matter as much as you think:

Fedor #1 HW- tiny
Machida #1 LHW- very small
Shogun (who beat Lyoto according to most)- small LHW
AS #1 MW- big, but not the biggest 185er
GSP- same as above, not the biggest 170er
BJ- average sized LW

Not sure what point you are making here. Nog is a legit HW. He couldn't cut down to LHW if he wanted to. That's the division he is in, and Cain is a true HW and a great test for him. Perhaps it's one you don't think he needs, but I need to see it. I'm an empirical guy.
Isnt it clear what point I am making?

Nog was only 10 lbs heavier than Randy. Randy tooled and finished much larger, heavier men in the past.

Your saying size mattered in this fight when it clearly didn't. 10 lbs is not much of a difference, especially considering Randy's greco-roman base and strength advantage.

@ Alizio:

Which Pride fighters are you referring to?

Usually carrying around unnecessary muscle mass or fat will wear your cardio down faster (Randleman, Coleman, Sokky, Sapp, etc.) but then you have exceptions.

I'm just saying Brock's cardio hasn't looked great in some of his fights (Couture, Mir 2) and for him to carry even more muscle than he does now, would only affect his cardio imo

Last edited by Xerxes; 11-11-2009 at 12:28 AM.
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post #73 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by alizio View Post
oh, for Khov also... JDS is in Nogs camp... they wont fight... thats why its not an option

how does one gauge who is the better wrestler?? Seriously, is there a piece of paper that just states it?? Do we look at pedigrees (if so then GSP has no wrestling pedigree pre MMA....)?? I know this may just be a crazy idea, but how about we actually find out?? Cain has LITERALLY tossed everybody he has faced around like ragdolls, take downs at will never seen in the UFC this side of GSP himself imo. Now obv he wasnt facing the top guys, but until he does (which would be this fight) its foolish to assume that he cant do it to Nog. Hopefully Nog doesnt think like this or he may be in for a long night.

Coleman better then Cain?? I dont think so, i hate comparing old school one dimensional, pre everybody knowing BJJ and having a ground game HWs to guys now, its unfair to both guys. Where are Coleman and Randleman now?? World beating?? I dont get it, that was then, this is now, they are different ppl.

There is a strong difference between wrestling and MMA wrestling, Ive never seen the relentlessness or cardio on any HW that i have seen in Cain, there are alot of questions, but that alone has me excited, if he flops on his face and loses it may be good for him too.
You and me are completely in the same boat regards Cain. I'm soooo excited about this fight. I absolutely love Nog and rate him VERY highly which is why I'm so keen to see my boy Cain tested. Personally, no matter who wins, it'll be a shock! That's how I feel about it. It's so rare I feel this way about a fight.

I think Cain will take it. He's a beast with nitro for blood it seems. Nog will get him in a dodgy spot or two but Cain will power through it and wear him down. If Nog wins... well then Nog really is still very much a hardcore f*ucker which is awesome for the UFC.

O joy and happiness and triangles. I cant wait.
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post #74 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 10:49 AM
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Want Nog to pull off the win here. Cain has been impressive as of late but Nog could steal the win due to his vast experience over the upstarter. I'd say Nog to finish Cain off his back with some sort of choke.

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post #75 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 10:54 AM
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I don't know if this was mentioned earlier, but... does Dana really reads this forum? Seriously - Alexander-Kimbo, and now this.. Maybe let's make a "fantasy card" topic, and discuss it - who knows, it could be our next PPV, LOL.
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post #76 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-12-2009, 01:08 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bzaal View Post
I don't know if this was mentioned earlier, but... does Dana really reads this forum? Seriously - Alexander-Kimbo, and now this.. Maybe let's make a "fantasy card" topic, and discuss it - who knows, it could be our next PPV, LOL.
Doubt it but who knows...
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