Lesnar Improving? Or no. - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2009, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Lesnar Improving? Or no.

Alright, everyone knows I'm a Lesnar hater and Fedor nuthugger. Out of respect however I usually choose to back my hate and love with facts and historical evidence.

I've got a question for Lesnar fans to answer:

Where is this extreme learning curve that Lesnar apparently has?

He didn't look any better technically against Couture than he did against Mir. Infact, Couture proved that Lesnar's wrestling is overrated. With a massive reach and weight disadvantage, Couture still neutralized Brock's take downs.

His standup didn't look any better either. Infact, in Mir II he didn't want to stand with Mir at all. Some crazy improvement huh? He did throw a leg kick or two, so that's something.

Now he did utilize wrist control more actively in Mir II, but that was due to respect to Mir's ground game. In the first match Lesnar came out very cocky, and with the help of a bias ref he paid for it.

I will give that in that one match, Lesnar's game plan seemed to compliment how terrible Mir's game plan was. That is measurable improvement. Props to his coach.


But we're not seeing this wild improvement from Lesnar - I don't take it seriously when people say "in a few years, Lesnar will be unstoppable."

People thought that a lot about Sapp too. Lesnar has only proven to be one-dimensional, his submission game and his standup have not improved.

Some fighters simply cannot adapt. It's tough to admit, but look at Sapp, look at poor Maia, look at Houston Alexander. These guys work on their stand up or ground game respectively full time to try to improve. But do they? No, it just does not come naturally for them.

If you watch one of Maia's first fights, a striker is coming at him and he throws two predictable high kicks. This is the same mistake he makes years later against Marquardt. Yet he's had top-tier training with world class muay thai strikers.

It's possible Brock will improve and become a well-rounded fighter. But at this point there is no evidence for that, and this mentality is getting a little crazy I think.
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2009, 10:33 PM
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anyone that keeps on donig mma will improve so simple answer is yes.
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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2009, 10:34 PM
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He is the UFC HW Champion, and hasn't even had a chance to defend his title. Give him a freakin' break...

Disclaimer: If you disagree with "khoveraki", you are destined to receive negative reputation. He can't accept someone disagreeing with him.
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2009, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by UrbanBounca View Post
He is the UFC HW Champion, and hasn't even had a chance to defend his title. Give him a freakin' break...
Nah I have nothing against Lesnar really. He's a necessary heel and fun to watch, even more fun to watch him lose. There have been tons like him, ie Sylvia, Sapp, Tito at LHW, etc.

But it's getting out of control with his fans thinking he can take anyone down and pound them out, especially when the facts aren't there to prove it.


And he's not training MMA right now, he's been sick for months apparently. One could argue right now he's getting worse.


counter edit: I passed out so much pos rep last night that I couldn't rep for 24hrs.
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2009, 10:38 PM
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Id like to point out that Couture is a greco-roman wrestler and Lesnar is a freestyle wrestler. That is why Couture was effective at times neutralizing Lesnar, but Lesnar still got the takedowns.
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2009, 10:40 PM
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Alright, everyone knows I'm a Lesnar hater and Fedor nuthugger.
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Nah I have nothing against Lesnar really.
You obviously do. He has pounded out every opponent, with the exception of Mir v. Lesnar I. He uses his size to his advantage, and has a great wrestling background. We're not saying that Lesnar could destroy Fedor, but to say that Lesnar won't make an impact in the HW division is crazy.
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2009, 10:55 PM
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Lesnar has improved and I am sure he will continue to improve. He is one of those freak of nature athletes that can do almost anything he sets his mind to whether it is wrestling, football or MMA.

He may not have improved his wrestling between Mir 1 and Mir 2 but how he used that wrestling is what made the difference. He is learning how he can use his strength to completely take his opposition out of the fight.

Standing up he had some troubles with Mir but I think that comes down to Lesnar seeing something he had never dealt with before. That being that Mir wasn't boxing with him, he was attacking using Muay Thai elbows and knees. Lesnar had been working his boxing but didn't know how to counter those attacks by Mir and wasn't expecting them like the jumping knee that rocked him a little. I bet he has worked on that since and figured some ways around it.

And as for the Couture fight I am not one of the ones that thinks Couture actually proved any weakness in Lesnars wrestling. Anyone who thought Lesnar would throw Couture around like a rag doll or anything like that was dreaming. Couture even though he gave up some size is probably the 2nd best wrestler out of all MMA fighters. Lesnar was never taken down by him and did take Couture down. Lesnar was also very cautious in that fight.

I don't think that Lesnar will become an all around dominant force like say GSP but I do think he will get to the point where he can handle himself decently in regards to stand up striking and will use his excellent wrestling to win fights, much like Couture did/does.
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2009, 11:13 PM
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Id like to point out that Couture is a greco-roman wrestler and Lesnar is a freestyle wrestler. That is why Couture was effective at times neutralizing Lesnar, but Lesnar still got the takedowns.

Unfortunately most people don't know the difference. They hear "wrestler" and think it's all the same.

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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2009, 11:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by UrbanBounca View Post
You obviously do. He has pounded out every opponent, with the exception of Mir v. Lesnar I. He uses his size to his advantage, and has a great wrestling background. We're not saying that Lesnar could destroy Fedor, but to say that Lesnar won't make an impact in the HW division is crazy.
Especially as he already has...

I really dislike Lesnar, however.. his wrestling is incredible. Added with his size and strength it's dangerous for anyone at HW. If he also gets a good Jits game and some technical striking he will continue to impact on the division for a very very long time.






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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-08-2009, 11:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post

Some fighters simply cannot adapt. It's tough to admit, but look at Sapp, look at poor Maia, look at Houston Alexander. These guys work on their stand up or ground game respectively full time to try to improve. But do they? No, it just does not come naturally for them.
And how many of them beat the champion in there respective divisions? Come on I want an answer...




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