Originally Posted by mrmyz
Yeah I know Im smart thats why im a college graduate. All of the strikes in mma are the same damn strikes in every martial art even boxing and muay thai. Every technique that is in boxing is incorperated in karate. Every technique in muay thai is in karate. By saying that its crappy your knocking those styles because the technique is the same.
also that video you posted makes me wonder what system the guy fights in because unless its a mainstream system saying you have a black belt in karate doesnt mean much. Also Id rather study a karate system over kick boxing because karate incorporates ground fighting as well. Like the system I train under has Onishi Jiu Jitzu which predates the gracie system by a couple of hundread years.
kyokoshin is a system founded that bases of of Gojo Ryu thats where he got his master status. You can look up dates all you want but look at where masoyama trained and who he trained under he trained under funakoshi. Dont try to give me a lecture on history that I have a degree in
If you watch the way chuck liddelle fights it is streight out of the koei kan text book. The over hand right that he uses is common in koei kan its like the signature move of the system. Also all of his kicks are in koei kan. All the kicks in that system and all karate systems for that matter have the kick boxing kicks and more. So him studying that art and learning those kicks from them directly attributes to his fighting style because thats where he learned it from. All those kicks are the kicks first taught to white belts.
ie. Mawashi Geri
also the karate block isnt a block how you do it. in their blocks they cover and then intercept the strike. what your talking about is the way that its taught to beginers high ranking people dont block like that its simply a teaching method. You overexagerate the block to prove a point and to build upon that later on for more compact blocks. Also the point of blocking in karate isnt to intercept the impact of the blow thats stupid. You want to stop the impact before it even happens. You want to block before its any where near your face. And yeah your open but you have another hand to block with and the other persons arm is tied up by that same block.
Also you have to be pretty slow if your making fun of kara because you have no idea what your talking about. You know who else uses kata?
Kick Boxers use kata
Boxers use kata
Jiu Jitzu uses kata
All it is is combinations. Your training a reaction for when a certain situation arises. When boxers train combinations thats kata your doing the same thing. Your setting up one hit to open up another location for another move.
Right to the body and hook to the ribs makes the oponent focus on the body when you raise up and hit him with a right hook right he imediately raises up because you focused the attention upward and then when you duck down and use left hook he immediately protects the body and you follow it up with a uppercut thats a knock out combination that set up the person for multiple power shots. Thats kata.
Look at how the gracies teach the self defense portion of their system. THEY USE KATA. Helio Gracie himself has said that kata is a essential part of the Gracie fighting system.
The fact that Oyama trained in Gojo Ryu does nothing to deny the fact that he stole his effective techniques from Muay Thai. If ancient Karate is so effective, why is the only effective branch of it a newly made discipline from the 1960s? That's because it's a knock off of Muay Thai, the actual and original effective ancient art. Kyokushin looks nothing like Gojo Ryu, its MUAY THAI TO THE DOT. At least the stuff that's successful in MMA and no rules competitions
is.. for a lot of the Karate only tournaments they'll revert back to the point-scoring karate styles and people will go "See! Kyokushin is karate!".
THIS, is what Gojo Ryu looks like:
YouTube - Kata Kanchin Vs. Kata Gojo Ryu
stiff, long and crappy katas, short punches with no power and no body weight behind them, short snappy kicks with no power or body weight behind them, and no real knees or elbows. Knees and elbows came to MMA from Muay Thai. Those pitter-patter punches and kicks don't hurt anyone, they just score points.
And no, boxing and KB don't use katas.. they use combinations (10-15 secs max). Yes, it makes sense to set up your next couple of moves with the current one, but not to memorize an entire 5 minute dance. Real fighting isn't that stiff or predictable.
Your history degree has nothing to do with the topic.. unless you majored in the history of martial arts? because you probably memorized the same medieval battles, cultures and traditions most of us college grads did and it doesn't mean you have any authority on this topic. Even if you did, it only qualifies you as an armchair expert who knows all MA theory and nothing about what really works (the biggest bane of martial arts). Not that I'm proud of it, but I grew up in a rough school where people got in fights all the time, and I learnt what works and what doesn't the hard way. And now, I've experimented with a bunch of different styles and compete in local MMA.
And Chuck Liddell's haymakers do NOT come from Koei Kan. No martial art teaches you to flail your arms like that. His fighting style is very unorthodox and all his own.. it's just chuck's pure fighters instinct that makes it work.
I could go on and on but it's clear you'll never see reason on this. Obviously you've put a lot of time and hard work into getting a Karate blackbelt and you could never accept that most of your hard work went to waste (at least in terms of being able to fight), so you'll defend it till your last breath. And that's the typical McDojo victim syndrome.