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View Poll Results: JDS: Love or Hate??

Love Him 30 52.63%
Hate Him 2 3.51%
Don't Really Care 25 43.86%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-06-2009, 04:56 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Yeah but could Valesquez KO JDS with a take down or something? Likely not. Once it goes to the ground, it's purple belt vs brown belt (under Maia and Nog).


That's like, such a tremendous skill difference. Not to mention JDS has an excellent clinch game. So really the only advantage he has is in take downs - but not groundgame and certainly not clinch and definitely not striking.


Definitely taking sigbets for Valesquez vs JDS if that ever happens.
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Old 12-06-2009, 05:20 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
Yeah but could Valesquez KO JDS with a take down or something? Likely not.
How about GSP TD's? Did they KO his last 6 opponents? (not comparing the 2)

Quote:
Once it goes to the ground, it's purple belt vs brown belt (under Maia and Nog).

That's like, such a tremendous skill difference. Not to mention JDS has an excellent clinch game. So really the only advantage he has is in take downs - but not groundgame and certainly not clinch and definitely not striking.

Definitely taking sigbets for Valesquez vs JDS if that ever happens.
Don't forget that JDS got his brown belt not too long ago, he was purple just a few weeks ago.

What your completely overlooking here is that Cain will most likely be on top, JDS bottom. So unless JDS has some Big Nog-esque sweeps and bottom game (not likely), his BJJ gets neutralized with Cain's top control.


Ftr, I'm picking Big Nog over Cain.
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Old 12-06-2009, 05:30 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
How about GSP TD's? Did they KO his last 6 opponents? (not comparing the 2)



Don't forget that JDS got his brown belt not too long ago, he was purple just a few weeks ago.

What your completely overlooking here is that Cain will most likely be on top, JDS bottom. So unless JDS has some Big Nog-esque sweeps and bottom game (not likely), his BJJ gets neutralized with Cain's top control.


Ftr, I'm picking Big Nog over Cain.

How can you compare GSP and Valesquez then say you're not comparing them? GSP was worlds above his opponents in top control, jiu jitsu, and take downs. Valesquez is actually way below JDS in jiu jitsu and waaaay below him in striking.

And whatdya mean, a few weeks ago he was a purple belt? I can't find any record of that. It's not like you go from purple to brown in a month. A brown belt is leagues above purple, that transition is hard to achieve. Not to mention, a belt from Maia and Nog means a lot more than basically any other teacher in MMA.


And unless he has nog-esque sweeps? He is learning BJJ sweeps from Nog... pretty likely chance.
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Old 12-06-2009, 06:00 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
How can you compare GSP and Valesquez then say you're not comparing them? GSP was worlds above his opponents in top control, jiu jitsu, and take downs. Valesquez is actually way below JDS in jiu jitsu and waaaay below him in striking.
Ugh.. My point wasnt to compare GSP with Cain, but to show you how silly your 'TDs don't KO you..' argument was.

TDs score you points, wear your opponents down and completely nullify your opponents' striking.

TDs + good top control score you points, nullify your opponent's bottom game and win you rounds/fights (most of the time).

Quote:
And whatdya mean, a few weeks ago he was a purple belt? I can't find any record of that. It's not like you go from purple to brown in a month.
I remember checking his Wiki before the CC fight and it said purple belt.

I'm tired now but will provide you with a link later.

Quote:
A brown belt is leagues above purple, that transition is hard to achieve. Not to mention, a belt from Maia and Nog means a lot more than basically any other teacher in MMA.
Source?

Quote:
And unless he has nog-esque sweeps? He is learning BJJ sweeps from Nog... pretty likely chance.
We havent seen jack of his ground game, yet you're convinced he's some kind of Nogueira on the ground who can sweep a good wrestler with good top control or sub them off his back. I'll believe it when I'll see it.

Not because he's being taught by Nog that his pure BJJ skills will translate as well as theirs in a MMA context.

Again, not everybody has the chin and heart of a Big Nog and is willing to take several shots to set up their sweeps or subs.
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Old 12-06-2009, 06:03 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
Ugh.. My point wasnt to compare GSP with Cain, but to show you how silly your 'TDs don't KO you..' argument was.

TDs score you points, wear your opponents down and completely nullify your opponents' striking.

TDs + good top control nullify your opponent's bottom game and win you rounds/fights (most of the time).



I remember checking his Wiki before the CC fight and it said purple belt.

I'm tired now but will provide you a link later.



Source?



We havent seen jack of his ground game, yet you're convinced he's some kind of Nogueira on the ground who can sweep a good wrestler with good top control or sub them off his back. I'll believe it when I'll see it.

Not because he's being taught by Nog that his pure BJJ skills will translate as well as theirs in a MMA context.

Again, not everybody has the chin or heart of a Big Nog and is willing to take several shots to set up their sweeps or subs.

So you're saying, anyone who can take someone down has the top control of GSP? How is my argument silly when you're the one who made the absurd comparison (that wasn't a comparison)?

Sure TDs score points but if you get swept or submitted or pummelled right after it then I don't think you're going to win the fight with TDs alone.

And we haven't seen jack of his groundgame because he dominated Werdum and KO'd him before it could ever go to the ground - not like he hasn't faced excellent grapplers/wrestlers.
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Old 12-06-2009, 06:10 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
So you're saying, anyone who can take someone down has the top control of GSP? How is my argument silly when you're the one who made the absurd comparison (that wasn't a comparison)?
GSP has amazing top control (top 3 in MMA imo). Cain has good, arguably very good top control.

Quote:
Sure TDs score points but if you get swept or submitted or pummelled right after it then I don't think you're going to win the fight with TDs alone.
Sure. I just dont see it happening against a wrestler of Cain's caliber, who happens to have decent MMA BJJ skills (from what we've seen)

Quote:
And we haven't seen jack of his groundgame because he dominated Werdum and KO'd him before it could ever go to the ground - not like he hasn't faced excellent grapplers/wrestlers.
The fact remains that we havent seen anything of his MMA BJJ.
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Old 12-06-2009, 06:23 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Khoveraki, you should wait till we actually see JDS get taken to the ground before you start assuming he is just going to be invincible there.

I am sure he isn't horrible on the ground as he has his brown belt BJJ under the Nogeuira brothers but that doesn't mean he is at the same level as them.

JDS has one loss on his record which was the following armbar submission loss



I could see Cain or Lesnar control JDS on the ground using their wrestling. We will have to wait and see but you jumping to the conclusion that he is awesome is no more correct then those that think he might get controlled by a good wrestler.

Edit: And he has one submission win



Neither clips show enough of his game. Maiorino has 3 submission losses by Guillotine choke. Doubt JDS would catch one of the top HW fighters in a choke like that.

Last edited by 420atalon : 12-06-2009 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 12-06-2009, 07:01 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Of course.

All we're doing is speculating and talking probables here, as we do before every single match-up. lol

I just find JDS being controlled on the ground by a very good (big/strong) wrestler with decent BJJ more likely than him sweeping or subbing that same fighter off his back.

Of course until the actual fight happens we won't know and khov wont have to honor his 'I suck at predicting fights, Cain>JDS>Kimbo>me' sig bet

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Old 12-06-2009, 11:16 PM   #29 (permalink)
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It's not like Kongo never got back up from Cain. JDS is nearly a black belt in BJJ, you don't think he'll be able to get up from Cain better than Kongo?



Plus Cain has pillowhands and will not threaten JDS on the feet one bit.


So little threat on the ground, no threat stand up, slight thread "take down."
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Old 12-06-2009, 11:54 PM   #30 (permalink)
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If JDS is 'nearly a BB' then Cain is nearly a brown belt.. lol

Big deal, Kongo got back up from under him a couple times in 15 min and got TDd again right after.

Don't get me wrong though, not saying Cain will destroy JDS. Just saying he'd be my pick if they were to fight each other one day (soon).

At least until I see a bit more of Junior's grappling, might change my mind if looks impressive with his TDD and BJJ but not likely that he will imo.
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