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Old 12-10-2009, 01:07 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Yeah you can't possibly argue this DQ loss. Silva's DQ loss was truly unintentional (the guy basically fell onto his knees, into the knees) and it was never reversed. Fedor's only "loss" ever was a super-clear cut NC, but it will never be reversed.


JBJ should probably try to save face.
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:12 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Okay. And I'm agreeing that he deserved to lose due to the elbows, however he still kicked Hammil's ass, and clearly WON the fight in the octagon, whether it was on paper that way or not. All the fans will remember the Hammil/Jones fight as Matt getting his ass whooped and winning due to some BS illegal elbows. HE WAS DONE BEFORE THE ELBOWS WERE THROWN. Now I'm done arguing about this..
K man I just want you to know I never tried to argue about that.

I bet on matt hammill going into the fight just because he's a personal favorite of mine, and once jones landed that throw...it hurt me to watch the beatdown he handed hammill...all I was saying was that Jones intentionally threw 2 illegal strikes and I dont agree with the people that think the decision should be reversed.
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:15 AM   #43 (permalink)
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K man I just want you to know I never tried to argue about that.

I bet on matt hammill going into the fight just because he's a personal favorite of mine, and once jones landed that throw...it hurt me to watch the beatdown he handed hammill...all I was saying was that Jones intentionally threw 2 illegal strikes and I dont agree with the people that think the decision should be reversed.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:37 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I think Mazzagatti handled the situation poorly (asking a deaf guy if he can continue, come on Maz) but there's no denying that those elbows were illegal. At this point there's no way to tell if Hammil couldn't continue because of the shoulder or because of the elbows. I'm a big Bones fan, but he and his management just need to accept this loss and move on.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:32 AM   #45 (permalink)
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The decision will not be reversed, I am pretty certain of that as are others in this thread for all of the same reasons cited (i.e. Fedor and AS). One point raised I don't think has been clarified although I may be wrong. Illegal blows YES, and although irrelevant because of the rule violation, did they cause the cut on the nose was the question? From my recollection, they did not. It appeared as if they hit on the forehead, I may be wrong though. Jones caught some flack for looking to the ref for a stoppage prior to a the elbows, which I think is getting a bad rap. Jones was clearly dominating and I don't consider Hamill defense of the GnP as intelligent. The fight should have been stopped and Jones was correct for looking to the ref for that call.

Let's speculate for a second that the call did get reversed, I am a bit confused as to why some people on here would call for a no decision. If it were stopped due to the shoulder injury, that would be a TKO-doctor stoppage not a NC. Once again this is just speculation because I really don't think the decision will be stopped. Bad decisions happen all the time in all sports, and they don't get reversed after the fact. (i.e. France vs. Ireland in the WC qualifiers)

Bottom line here is a few things, Jones a freak and will be a force for years to come in mma. This "loss" will not be anything more than an asterisk later in his career. More importantly however is that Mazz is one of the worst refs in mma and should be seriously looked at by all mma regulating commissions.
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:16 AM   #46 (permalink)
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The notion of an appeal is rather silly. The executive director of the presiding commission has already stated that it was the right call. This is mere posturing.

For those of you questioning Steve's call, all I can say is you've clearly never reffed a fight. Steve is in there and he needs to assess the fighters condition. He is trying to communicate with someone who can't hear. He does however read lips, but in this case he can't because his eye's are full of blood. So you have a fighter who is deaf and now pretty much blind. Assuming that his shoulder was ok, do you think a deaf, blind fighter can intelligently defend themselves?
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:35 AM   #47 (permalink)
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The notion of an appeal is rather silly. The executive director of the presiding commission has already stated that it was the right call. This is mere posturing.

For those of you questioning Steve's call, all I can say is you've clearly never reffed a fight. Steve is in there and he needs to assess the fighters condition. He is trying to communicate with someone who can't hear. He does however read lips, but in this case he can't because his eye's are full of blood. So you have a fighter who is deaf and now pretty much blind. Assuming that his shoulder was ok, do you think a deaf, blind fighter can intelligently defend themselves?
he wasnt intelligently defending himself long before the illegal elbows, he took 84 unanswered mounted shots....

i also didnt know blood in your eyes caused permantent blindness that can stop a fight.... i was under the impression you could wipe the blood out of your eyes, take a few min and see if your OK.

By what you wrote there, everytime MH has blood in his eyes the fight should be stopped because he is deaf and blind?? pretty silly imo that cut was only bleeding in his eyes because he was laying down. Once he stood back up there would be np whatsoever that cut was no reason to stop a fight. Look at TUF 10, Big Abes head was gashed open in one of the worst i have ever seen recently and wasnt even considered being stopped.

Mazz is a joke, Rothwell is getting up taking a few unanswered shots (maybe 4 while getting up) and the fight is stopped. Hamill is fully mounted for over a min and taking 84 unanswered shots and it doesnt get stopped.... i much rather be in Rothwells position then Hamills. Covering up while mounted for over a min?? Theres nothing intelligent about that, that's a good way to get serious damage.

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Old 12-10-2009, 09:48 AM   #48 (permalink)
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he wasnt intelligently defending himself long before the illegal elbows, he took 84 unanswered mounted shots....

i also didnt know blood in your eyes caused permantent blindness that can stop a fight.... i was under the impression you could wipe the blood out of your eyes, take a few min and see if your OK.

By what you wrote there, everytime MH has blood in his eyes the fight should be stopped because he is deaf and blind?? pretty silly imo
First, let me state I am not arguing whether the fight should have been stopped earlier or not. That is really immaterial to the discussion. The issue is: Is the injury that caused Steve to the stop fight a)severe enough to cause a stop to the fight or interfere with the fighter's ability to defend themself b)caused by an intentional blow.

A cut that causes blood to run into the eyes is grounds for stopping a fight whether a person is hearing impaired or not. Is that because it can cause blindness? No its becuase you can't see to fight. The elbows were intentional. If Steve did not know that Hammill's shoulder was injured it is irrelevant whether that is communicated, because it was not caused by the foul and is not the reason that Steve called the fight.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:12 AM   #49 (permalink)
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I believe Hammill was done before the illegal elbows considering the shoulder injury and how much Bones was battering him from the mount. That said, the fight was not stopped and the illegal elbows came when the fight was still going on, therefore it is what it is and the DQ is justified. Call that bad reffing because Maz didn't stop it before or call it that Hammill still defending himself... neither change the reality that the fight was still going on and Bones started throwing illegal elbows that arguably assisted in putting Hammill out of the fight.

There's lots of ifs and buts but there isn't really any definitive grounds for Jon Jones' management to be protesting, we all know he was going to win the fight so accept it, save face and move on. Jones even said in an interview after the fight he felt glad he wasn't undefeated anymore. Just go with it and move on, you're going to be successful either way and you'll keep some fans by not making a big fuss over such a controversial issue involving a very popular fighter in Hammill.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:15 AM   #50 (permalink)
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First, let me state I am not arguing whether the fight should have been stopped earlier or not. That is really immaterial to the discussion. The issue is: Is the injury that caused Steve to the stop fight a)severe enough to cause a stop to the fight or interfere with the fighter's ability to defend themself b)caused by an intentional blow.

A cut that causes blood to run into the eyes is grounds for stopping a fight whether a person is hearing impaired or not. Is that because it can cause blindness? No its becuase you can't see to fight. The elbows were intentional. If Steve did not know that Hammill's shoulder was injured it is irrelevant whether that is communicated, because it was not caused by the foul and is not the reason that Steve called the fight.

im not an official but i thought blood in you eyes stops fight if the cut is bleeding directly into your line of vision?? A cut on the nose is not, the only reason it was is because he was laying down.

As for the complaint, any good management team would do the same thing or they arent doing their jobs imo
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