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Old 12-10-2009, 06:01 PM   #31 (permalink)
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At Diego's angle, yes it was 12-6 BUT rules don't go by that. They go by 12-6 to the octagon.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:11 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I'll agree, but what about 10-4? or 11-5? those are just as legal from the top as 9-3 but according to the Dr above, they are not less damaging than 12-6.
You know what man, you're totally right. IMO if a licensed doctor says that 12-6 elbows are no more damaging than any other elbow from the top, then the ufc should amend the rule. Either make 12-6 elbows legal (obvious choice) or go right ahead and outlaw every elbow from mount, which would be stupid.

I will say one thing though even if the rule was changed, I still think the DQ should stand because at the time of the ruling those elbows were illegal.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:28 PM   #33 (permalink)
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A better argument would be that a 9-3 cross elbow strike is not going to transfer all its force to the face due to its grazing nature (some momentum is retained as the elbow continues past the face) whereas a 12-6 could be completely stopped by the head thus the head is absorbing all the force. But I seriously doubt an 11-5 (a legal strike) would be much different in terms of damage than a 12-6, as Dr Benjamin pointed out.
Yeah the highlighted part basically was what i was also trying to say. Now an 11-5 is a hole dif story from the 9-3. During a fast paste fight with both fighters moving around can a ref even accurately tell the difference from a 12-6 and an 11-5 or are they just guessing?

For the record though i still think a 12-6 and even an 11-5 elbow does significant more damage than a 9-3 or even a 10-4

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Old 12-10-2009, 06:28 PM   #34 (permalink)
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You know what man, you're totally right. IMO if a licensed doctor says that 12-6 elbows are no more damaging than any other elbow from the top, then the ufc should amend the rule. Either make 12-6 elbows legal (obvious choice) or go right ahead and outlaw every elbow from mount, which would be stupid.

I will say one thing though even if the rule was changed, I still think the DQ should stand because at the time of the ruling those elbows were illegal.
As a fight who has been on the receiving end of 12-6 elbows let me say that that doctor is full of shit. They land with a lot more force than any other gnp I have ever been exposed to. Period. You have no room to recoil and all that force is transferred to the contact point. It increases the force by a huge amount. This doctor has clearly never taken any form of these elbows hence his opinion is suspect at best.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:47 PM   #35 (permalink)
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They aren't. A 12-6 elbow from the mount would be an elbow straight down. a 12-6 elbow from the bottom would have to be literally straight up from the floor with no noticable curve and I don't see how that's really feasible. Silva's, for example, were definitely not going straight up at Hendo's head, they had a lot of motion parallel to the floor.

9-3 is an elbow that is not straight up or down, but comes in at a noticable angle.
Okay, I'm aware that 12-6 elbows go from up to down, however I am using the term more in a straight line fashion (hence why I said the 12-6 and 9-3 elbows are the same). I should be calling them 'elbows thrown with no arc' to stop the confusion =P.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:24 PM   #36 (permalink)
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That doesn't actually explain why 12-6 would be more dangerous than 9-3, assuming both heads were on the mat.
True- I was jst answering why 12 to 6 is illegal and not commenting on 9-3 or 2:30 to 5:45 or anything else.

personally I prefer MMA without elbows to downed opponents, because then there are less cuts that end fights prematurely, less blood for anti-fight morons to cry about, and so on.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:02 PM   #37 (permalink)
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If a 12-6 blow is so much more damaging because the head has no room to move back, thus absorbing the impact, then hammerfists from guard should be illegal as well for the same reason. Same difference, and you can argue that a hammerfist can possibly have more force/impact because of arc made by the arm.

Yeah, an elbow focuses all the damage on one point, but I bet you can get more momentum with a hammerfist than a elbow because of body mechanics.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:36 PM   #38 (permalink)
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If a 12-6 blow is so much more damaging because the head has no room to move back, thus absorbing the impact, then hammerfists from guard should be illegal as well for the same reason. Same difference, and you can argue that a hammerfist can possibly have more force/impact because of arc made by the arm.

Yeah, an elbow focuses all the damage on one point, but I bet you can get more momentum with a hammerfist than a elbow because of body mechanics.
Nope. Doesn't work that way. It's damn near impossible to generate the kind of focused force with a hammerfist as you can with an elbow. Bodily mechanics. With a 12-6 elbow you can focus your body weight and strength through the hardest bone in your body into a target that has no recoil room. A hammerfist is - by it's very nature - can generate only arm strength. You can't put body weight into it. It's also fairly soft of a body part to strike with.

The joys of kinetic linking and bodily engineering.
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