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Old 12-10-2009, 07:57 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Jones vs. Diego's Elbows ...

Hey guys,

So I was just thinking about Jon Jones's elbows against Hamill which got him disquialified - he was in the mount dropping 12-6 o'clock elbows. Then, I remembered Diego Sanchez's elbows to Clay Guida, which were clearly 12-6 o'clock elbows however from the bottom - nevertheless they cut Clay up pretty bad. I realise that the mount is the more dominant position where Jones could put all of his weight behind those elbows, but the style was identical to Diego's, just from a different position.

I'm not too sure about this rule ... could someone clear it up for me? Is it just from on top that these elbows are illegal?
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Hey guys,

So I was just thinking about Jon Jones's elbows against Hamill which got him disquialified - he was in the mount dropping 12-6 o'clock elbows. Then, I remembered Diego Sanchez's elbows to Clay Guida, which were clearly 12-6 o'clock elbows however from the bottom - nevertheless they cut Clay up pretty bad. I realise that the mount is the more dominant position where Jones could put all of his weight behind those elbows, but the style was identical to Diego's, just from a different position.

I'm not too sure about this rule ... could someone clear it up for me? Is it just from on top that these elbows are illegal?
yep. diegos were more 9-3 imo same with silva vs lutter
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:07 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I think the '12-6' represents the vertical from ceiling to floor, rather than in relation to the fighter (head - feet)?

So its illegal if you're in mount or on your feet, but the exact same motion is legal if you're lying on your back?
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:09 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I think it probably is the positioning that makes the difference.

Having them elbows drop from the mount is alot more dangerous than from guard.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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As far as I know, with the 12/6 elbows, If it's a glancing blow it's allowed, see Silva v Lutter. If it lands straight on with force like Jones/Hamill it's illegal.

I noticed those elbows from Diego in the Countdown show and I think some of those elbows were clearly 12-6 and illegal imo. I'd have to rewatch the fight again to be 100% sure but I think some landed illegally.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:18 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Oh yeah, the Silva elbows to Lutter were similar - damn they were brutal.

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I think the '12-6' represents the vertical from ceiling to floor, rather than in relation to the fighter (head - feet)?
Hmmm ... I'm actually not sure what the '12-6' elbows are considered, I mean logically being dropped down are going to carry more force, but man those elbows by Diego/A.Silva were pretty brutal. Then again, they were being dropped on the top of the head and not the face like Hamill copped. Argh I don't know lmao ...

On a side note, IMO '12-6' elbows are the same as '9-3' really.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:20 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I always thought that they were illegal if your fist is pointing at the ceiling when you're throwing them. I don't know how the offical rules are worded though.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:34 AM   #8 (permalink)
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On a side note, IMO '12-6' elbows are the same as '9-3' really.

While 12-6 and 9-3 elbows are similar in that they both come in a straight line from the attackers face to the victims face, the main differences I believe are the ones you already mentioned, like straight up down elbows (12-6) simply having more force due to gravity and the fact that elbows dropped from the mount tend to hit straight in the face rather than to the top of the head which I believe is more protected from blows
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Well if you are laying on your back and doing a 12-6 elbow you would be elbowing yourself! The ones Anderson/Diago were using were 6-12 or even 9-3/3-9, which are not illeagal and are not nearly as dangerous!

The issue with the 12-6 elbow is you can put all your body weight and strength behind it! If you are on your back, that is impossible!
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:28 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I think some people are confused exactly what 12/6 are. Just imagine a clock, 12 is straight up, 6 is straight down. So you go from straight up to straight down, thus a 12/6. Elbows from the bottom usually are 9/3 or 3/9(same thing just from opposite angle)
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