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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 03:30 AM
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If I was being choked unconcious, I wouldn't tap either. I would fight till I was asleep to try and get out of it.

Hell, I've killed more brain cells drinking at UFC's then Fighters have by not tapping out


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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 04:07 AM
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There are a few big reasons. This is coming from a BJJ guy who's been put to sleep a couple times.

1. Heart, determination, etc. You just don't want to tap because you don't want to lose, be it because you hate your opponent or just really need a W.

2. The lights go out FAR to quickly. Some big dudes will put you to sleep before you really process what the hell is going on. I've been RNC'd by a dude like twice my size before and passed out before I really knew it was locked on. Big dudes that can put a lot of pressure in the right spots like Mir will choke you out FAST.

3. Instinct. For someone who isn't well versed on the ground (Kongo) your first instinct is to just GTFO ASAP. Technique goes out the window and you just fight for dear life however possible. BJJ is tailored to fight human instinct (so if you're fighting a dude who has no idea what he's doing, this will happen). Kongo went about defending that choke completely wrong so I think it's a combination of this and #2. Mir had more of a Front Choke/Guillotine so it would've choked him more like an RNC than a guillotine, the lights go out MUCH faster with an RNC.
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 04:34 AM
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Kongo probably didn't want to lose so early on in the match considering the pre-fight trash talk.

90 percent of the game is half mental. Tim Sylvia
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TraMaI View Post
There are a few big reasons. This is coming from a BJJ guy who's been put to sleep a couple times.

1. Heart, determination, etc. You just don't want to tap because you don't want to lose, be it because you hate your opponent or just really need a W.

2. The lights go out FAR to quickly. Some big dudes will put you to sleep before you really process what the hell is going on. I've been RNC'd by a dude like twice my size before and passed out before I really knew it was locked on. Big dudes that can put a lot of pressure in the right spots like Mir will choke you out FAST.

3. Instinct. For someone who isn't well versed on the ground (Kongo) your first instinct is to just GTFO ASAP. Technique goes out the window and you just fight for dear life however possible. BJJ is tailored to fight human instinct (so if you're fighting a dude who has no idea what he's doing, this will happen). Kongo went about defending that choke completely wrong so I think it's a combination of this and #2. Mir had more of a Front Choke/Guillotine so it would've choked him more like an RNC than a guillotine, the lights go out MUCH faster with an RNC.
This. Most of the times a sub gone bad happens when the pressure goes up too fast to notice the change from "I can still get out" to "light's out". A choke's not half as bad, sometimes an overzealous armbar, kimura or leglock can snap the joint before the pain even starts to register.
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 07:29 AM
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Weren't his arms caught inside the guilltoine anyway? Herb Dean had to pull his arms out to see if he had gone limp
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 09:26 AM
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Maybe it was just me, but I thought i saw Kongo try to tap or at least try to pull his arm out for a tap. When it was live and you saw Kongos left side and the ref looking at them it looked like Kongos right arm was going up and down.

All I know is he got KTFO and carma is a bitch, Mir was pissed for him turning his back at the weigh-ins.
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 09:56 AM
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I just think that Kongo if he would had tapped out, that he couln't watch himself in the mirror anymore! It's just these guys have to much honor and feel shame when they tap out, even through this is ridiculous. But fighter's like Kongo have to much ( can't find the right word ) in them. The worst thing to do for these guy's is to tap against such a ****.
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 10:41 AM
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I don't tap out from chokes, I mean if you go to sleep big deal, you wake up in 30 sec whatever, but when I see people get their arms broken and stuff, I mean some are unexpected the guy is just that strong, but other guys just don't tap out, you'll never catch me doing that.


Also, contrary to what I just said above, I would tap out the moment Frank Mir put me in any submission since he always holds the submission for 15 seconds after the person taps, goes unconcious, or the ref tells him to stop
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 10:45 AM
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Actually the worst thing to do is not to tap! Someday you won't wake up after 30sec and good bye then. These guy's need to understand that tapping isn't a shame or anything like that. But until that happens, i think we will see the first guy who doesn't wake up.

Too much proud is bad for youre health!
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2009, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyCooper View Post
Actually the worst thing to do is not to tap! Someday you won't wake up after 30sec and good bye then. These guy's need to understand that tapping isn't a shame or anything like that. But until that happens, i think we will see the first guy who doesn't wake up.

Too much proud is bad for youre health!


why won't I wake up? do you know how long it actually takes to suffocate, around 5 minutes, give or take some seconds. You're never gonna be in a choke for 5 minutes, unless maybe you fight some ass hole like matt hughes, bj penn, frank mir, or Babalu who doesn't let go of the submission when they're supposed to.
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