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Old 12-13-2009, 10:51 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WouldLuv2FightU View Post
I agree, but who would you put as #4? I might have said Frankie Edgar had he not lost to Maynard.
Good question! haha i really don't know.
Like i said i can only give a top 3 with the guys i mentioned.. after that it just gets too confusing and contradicting. As you mentioned earlier i would also like to see Machida rack up a few more wins and especially have to see the Shogun rematch then it would be clearer.
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Old 12-13-2009, 10:52 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by vaj3000 View Post
I think when ppl talk about p4p they place an emphasis on skill set rather than their weight. If all thing being equal and all fighters such as penn, fedor, silva, gsp, even lesnar where the same weight how would you rank them?

Lesnar simply despite his great wrestling skills relies on his disproportionate size advantage and if all things were equal he wouldnt make the top 4.

Anderson Silva? Great fighter but lets face it he again relies on a size advantage despite his great striking and takedown defence....if his skills where tested at LHW would he be as effective? Simply put we cant know for sure so that lowers his rating imho.

GSP again great skills best in his weightclass, but again relies on a size differential.

Fedor, is a legend fights guys that are bigger than him could prob cut to LHW if he wanted, however the only thing that would prevent me from putting him numero uno is the fact that the HW division across mma is too dispersed.

Bj penn fights at his natural weight, his take down defence grappling stand up is superior to everyone in his weight class. Even guys like sanchez (who after weighing in at 155 got up to 167 in a couple of hours)



So i'd put it

Penn
Silva
Fedor
Gsp
Thats the way I would rank them also. Does anyone know how much weight BJ cuts?
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Old 12-13-2009, 11:21 AM   #23 (permalink)
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People talk about Machida but he pretty much got beat by Shogun, or at least taken to a razor thin decision. I don't recall GSP, BJ or Anderson being in any close fights at their weight class in recent times.

BJ has completely destroyed Stevenson, Sherk, Florian and now Sanchez. Machida has soundly beat Ortiz, T.Silva, Evans and got a close decision over Shogun that many feel he lost. It's not really comparable to the absolute destructions of Penn, who convincingly finished all of the LWs I mentioned. I don't think Machida is even relevant in P4P at the moment.

P4P best is a difficult topic. Fedor has beaten more fighters that are heavier than he is, but GSP, Silva and Penn have beaten the current best in their divisions. From what I can remember Penn has done this more convincingly than anyone else. He hasn't been rocked or troubled by anyone at LW in a long time.

Last edited by Bob Pataki : 12-13-2009 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 12-13-2009, 11:28 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WouldLuv2FightU View Post
I can agree with most of that, except at least switch Fedor and Anderson. I think you did forget to mention that Andy is 2-0 at LHW sounds like by your wording you weren't aware of that. But Fedor is undefeated in his career and has beat 7 guys who have been UFC heavyweight champs....not to mention he is undefeated in over 30 fights against guys bigger than him. Good post though
Off the top of my head griffin was the exception buti cant think of the other fighter your reffering to
In fairness griffin is a pretty predictable fighter and stylistically speaking makes a good fight for Anderson.
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Old 12-13-2009, 12:01 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Every time we see Silva, GSP, or Penn fight, one of the three individuals automatically becomes the Pound For Pound King, so I see little point to these threads. When GSP mauls Dan Hardy, the boards will be flooded with people ranking him higher than Silva and Penn. It's just how these things tend to work. I honestly don't see how you can rank Penn higher than St. Pierre when one was utterly dismantled by the other, but that's just me. We can call it size difference all we want, but is that not the same reason we often tend to rank Silva over St. Pierre? I'm a massive GSP mark, but even I admit that were he to move to MW for a super-fight with Anderson, size difference alone would be to GSP's detriment. Unless he can walk the Frank Mir route and successfully bulk up without effecting his speed and cardiovascular endurance. That would be a much different story.

When GSP finishes Dan Hardy, I'll look for this exact same thread, only with the rankings reorganized. That's simply how predictable we as MMA fans can be.
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Old 12-13-2009, 12:07 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Canadian Psycho View Post
Every time we see Silva, GSP, or Penn fight, one of the three individuals automatically becomes the Pound For Pound King, so I see little point to these threads. When GSP mauls Dan Hardy, the boards will be flooded with people ranking him higher than Silva and Penn. It's just how these things tend to work. I honestly don't see how you can rank Penn higher than St. Pierre when one was utterly dismantled by the other, but that's just me. We can call it size difference all we want, but is that not the same reason we often tend to rank Silva over St. Pierre?
Good point

It's really true what you saying. Most people only see the last fight of a fighter and rank him then. That's way Machida isn't even in the top 5 anymore by most people on this board. Because they just see the last fight wich was a pretty close one.
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:19 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I don't really get people placing Machida so high in the P4P list. The whole concept of making a list like this has way too many conflicting arguements for why one fighter is above another... However to me A.Silva, GSP & Penn can be seen as clear cut top 3 imo because of the way they completely destroyed everyone in their weight class. Machida on the other hand hasn't been the champ all that long and he didn't look a class above his division in his last fight with Shogun in fact he looked far from it.

Providing GSP smashes through Hardy i think he should go to 185 and fight a highly ranked MW so his skill/size/athleticism can truely be tested.
I agree, Machida has no business being near GSP, Penn, or Fedor.
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:38 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by vaj3000 View Post
Lets be honest here, GSP fights guys that are smaller than him, anderson silva does the same, the HW fighters are to dispersed for fedor to be declared p4p the greatest(despite his awesomeness) BJ penn Is the one guy that would fight king Kong if he had to! The dude is so good at his weight that he has to fight above his weight for a challenge. He relies on pure skill which is a rarity nowadays rather than a massive weight cut.

How anyone can say he's not the P4P best is beyond me
I totally agree. Look at it like this....pretend BJ never fought at WW since he came back, he's dominated 155 so badly he has to be top 3 p4p in the UFC. My top 5 is as follows:

Silva
Penn
GSP
Machida
Lesnar

Penn and GSP are basically a tie, I put Penn ahead because he's only lost once at LW in 8 years, GSP has lost twice in 5 years. Obviously it wasn't beating Diego that moved him up in my p4p list...it was the fact that he completely and totally dominated Diego the entire fight and Diego was the clear-cut #1 contender.
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:41 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Why are people talking about fighting out of their current weight class? The questions is best P4P not best fighter period. Speculation about how GSP would do a weight class above him is just that, speculation. Look at what they have done in their respective divisions.

IMO, the list should go like this seeing at what they have done and who they have fought:

Silva - Cleared out the whole division with names such as Hendo (future hall of famer) and Franklin

GSP - Cleared out whole division with incredible fighters such as Hughes (future hall of famer) and Fitch

BJ - Dominated every fight in the division since returning from the WW div. No fights with as big a names as the 2 above.
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:47 PM   #30 (permalink)
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And Machida has a fight record of 16:0! We just ignore that he fought former UFC, Pride Champions and so on.
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