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View Poll Results: Who is the best wrestler in MMA

GSP 97 74.05%
Dan Henderson 5 3.82%
Cain Velasquez 5 3.82%
Chael Sonnen 0 0%
Matt Lindland 1 0.76%
Randy Couture 4 3.05%
Sean Sherk 0 0%
Josh Koschek 2 1.53%
Brock Lesnar 15 11.45%
Other (specify) 2 1.53%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-01-2010, 11:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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1.GSP
2.Lesnar
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Old 01-01-2010, 11:13 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshKnows46 View Post
but the OP just asked who's the best wrestler, not who better utilizes wrestling.
the thread starter should of been a little more specific then huh?
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Old 01-01-2010, 11:13 PM   #23 (permalink)
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ill be the odd ball and say it goes to The Natural
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Old 01-01-2010, 11:15 PM   #24 (permalink)
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GSP, no question. However, mad love to SUR1109 for throwing out my boy Randy

He did hold his own, wrestling-wise, with an elite level wrestler who outweighed him by 40+ lbs

You guys are arguing who has the best wrestling credentials. I guess if that is what you think defines the best wrestling, and don't take into account how they use it in MMA, then sure, GSP can't win.

However, I think the question implies that the wrestling has to be judged in the context of MMA. Here is a clip from a Statistical argument from Fightmetrics.com
Quote:
Wrestling

If fans overrate St. Pierre’s stand-up, then wrestling may be an area where St. Pierre is actually underrated, if you can believe it. It’s not that people don’t think he’s good, it’s a problem of comparison. The UFC welterweight division is stacked with fighters who come from wrestling backgrounds and boast elite credentials. In his UFC career, St. Pierre has faced a who’s-who of vaunted takedown artists: Hughes, Koscheck, Frank Trigg, Sean Sherk, and Parisyan, to name a few. These fighters are known for their takedowns; it’s their best weapon. So it’s only natural that St. Pierre’s takedowns would be downplayed when it’s only a facet of his game and the primary part of his opponents’.

Here’s the reality: St. Pierre is possibly the best functional wrestler in MMA. He’s not the best pure wrestler; a Division I national champion like Koscheck could probably beat him in a straight wrestling match. But in an MMA match, the tables turn. St. Pierre uses his strikes to set up his takedowns, catches kicks, and performs lightning-fast level changes against the fence. It’s that dynamism that puts him at a significant advantage over a less well-rounded wrestler whose takedown shots seem telegraphed by comparison.

Over the course of the 17 fights in his career St. Pierre has succeeded on 37 of 46 takedown attempts for a success rate of 80%, well higher than the average takedown success rate of 48%. He managed to take down every one of his opponents except for Serra and Hieron, who he knocked out standing instead.

The other component of St. Pierre’s wrestling dominance is his takedown defense. Again, the average success rate is 48%, but his opponent’s success rate is just 17% on 7 of 42 attempts. And once down, opponents can’t keep St. Pierre on his back for very long. To date, only Koscheck has been able to hold St. Pierre down for more than a minute at a time. In total, St. Pierre has spent less than five of his 120 fighting minutes on his back.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns This pretty much sums up my opinion.
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Old 01-01-2010, 11:30 PM   #25 (permalink)

 
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Anyone who doesn't think GSP is the best wrestler doesn't understand how good Kos was considered, Josh Koscheck is extremely decorated and is one of top 5 best wrestlers to ever get into MMA.
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Old 01-01-2010, 11:38 PM   #26 (permalink)
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GSP by far. Randy coming in close behind him.
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Old 01-01-2010, 11:41 PM   #27 (permalink)

 
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GSP by far. Randy coming in close behind him.
Huh? Your a walking contradiction Trai, somebody obviously did not get enough sleep last night.
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Old 01-01-2010, 11:47 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Well Gsp is trying to wrestle in the up coming olympics so we'll get to see what level his wrestling is really on.
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Old 01-01-2010, 11:47 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic View Post
Anyone who doesn't think GSP is the best wrestler doesn't understand how good Kos was considered, Josh Koscheck is extremely decorated and is one of top 5 best wrestlers to ever get into MMA.
Up until he decided to become a striker Koscheck had the most ridiculous shoot-in to a takedown which I can remember seeing. The explosive power which he had in the initial shot and the follow through drive was amazing, he'd shoot in for the takedown, drive the guy most of the way across the cage as he tried to sprawl and still get him down with authority. Until he ran into GSP, his takedowns were unstoppable and ranked up there with the best. Then he got introduced to a whole new level of wrestling.

As for who's best, up until his fight with Vera I probably would've put Couture in a tie with GSP. He held his own against Brock and if he wanted someone taken down, they went down. But after his 3 rounds of futile takedowns against Vera, I gotta give the edge to GSP since no one's stopped him yet.
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Old 01-02-2010, 12:09 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
The fact 92.8% of the forum are attached to his nuts doesn't play a part ?
As Toxic said, people are on his nuts because he's such an amazing wrestler, not the other way around.

Also, I'm not on his nuts by a long shot, yet I still believe he's the best wrestler in MMA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshKnows46 View Post
so your telling me gsp can out wrestle dan henderson, or chael sonnon? no way.

matt lindland, and couture are olympic caliber wrestlers, gsp isn't on that level.
I don't see GSP doing better in wrestling than Hendo becasue Hendo is a great wrestler and has a lot of size and strength going for him. Strong, big wrestler vs. smaller wrestler = bigger wrestler winning.

Do I think if Dan was GSP's size, same weight class, with the same wrestling skills, that GSP would take him down? Yes, Rampage even outwrestled Hendo. GSP is far too explosive and strong at his weight, probably even a weight class above, for anyone to stop his takedowns. He's a great wrestler who's fast and explosive and has a lot of strength, which makes his wrestling even that much more impressive.
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