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View Poll Results: Who is the best wrestler in MMA

GSP 97 74.05%
Dan Henderson 5 3.82%
Cain Velasquez 5 3.82%
Chael Sonnen 0 0%
Matt Lindland 1 0.76%
Randy Couture 4 3.05%
Sean Sherk 0 0%
Josh Koschek 2 1.53%
Brock Lesnar 15 11.45%
Other (specify) 2 1.53%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-02-2010, 12:40 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Cain is a beast and deserves more credit then he is getting. Everybody he has trained with, from AKA to Machida to Brett Rogers has said the same thing..... BEAST!! You cant stop the takedowns and if you get up you get taken down again, controlled, GnP'd and so on. Top that off with off the charts cardio for a HW (has he ever looked tired?? he straight wrestles AKA WWs and outlasts them....) and you got something special here. Ill bump this after he takes down Nog at will

GSP has the best transitional style MMA wrestling from striking to TDs. Great top control and just like Cain if you do get up, it's likely you get put down even faster. Im not sure where he would be without the striking tho. Still top notch no doubt.

Sonnen has some crazy freestyle skills and i enjoy watching him so i thought i'd give some mention

BTW Toxic, i was saying if GSP moved up to 185.... not who was a better wrestler P4P. There is a MASSIVE difference. I dont think GSP can move up to 185 or 205 and outwrestle Dan Henderson. No if's and's or buts about it, if he clinched with Dan Henderson he is getting taken down, if he tries to control Dan Henderson on the ground i think it's VERY unlikely.

Alves is big... Alves wants no part of MW, so ppl need to stop pointing at him as proof GSP can beat bigger, stronger guys because Alves couldnt hang with the top MWs imo and i think in his own opinion because clearly with his stature that's the weight class he belongs in.

Imma throw this out there. Straight wrestling match, 2morro might, Cain vs Randy, i would throw $200 REAL dollars on Cain and $500 in an MMA fight

Last edited by alizio : 01-02-2010 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 01-02-2010, 12:49 PM   #52 (permalink)

 
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GSP has been putting on weight for an eventual move to 185, the GSP who fought Alves has already put on about 15 pounds of muscle to begin preparation for the move.

And for the record the reason Alves cute so much weight is cause A he thinks it gives him an edge to be the bigger stronger guy and honestly he can't really put anymore muscle on his short frame with out hindering mobility and Alves would still be a small to average MW and with his little T-Rex arms he is pretty much pigeon holed into the WW division.
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Old 01-02-2010, 01:03 PM   #53 (permalink)
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GSP has been putting on weight for an eventual move to 185, the GSP who fought Alves has already put on about 15 pounds of muscle to begin preparation for the move.

And for the record the reason Alves cute so much weight is cause A he thinks it gives him an edge to be the bigger stronger guy and honestly he can't really put anymore muscle on his short frame with out hindering mobility and Alves would still be a small to average MW and with his little T-Rex arms he is pretty much pigeon holed into the WW division.
i agree on avles but on gsp we dont see eye to eye i guess. I dont think you can just "put on muscle" and think you are going to be stronger then fighters naturally that size who arent putting on a thing, they are losing weight. A fighter like GSP who needs to put on and keep more muscle on his frame to compete at the weight is more likely not going to have the strength advantage.

Let me ask you this, do you think GSP will be stronger then Hendo if they met at 185?? If you do, this is where we disagree strongly. I dont think there is much GSP can do outside of roiding to get strong enough to face these natural 205ers who fight at 185 aswell like Andy and Hendo. I also think without a strength advantage which he enjoys in almost every fight at WW, things can get hard for GSP, when the TDs arent assured and neither is the control he loses alot of what makes his special.
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Old 01-02-2010, 01:11 PM   #54 (permalink)

 
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GSP doesn't need to be stronger then Hendo, does he need to be stronger then GSP is now? Probably but he is much more skilled as well as younger and much more explosive.
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Old 01-02-2010, 01:17 PM   #55 (permalink)
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GSP doesn't need to be stronger then Hendo, does he need to be stronger then GSP is now? Probably but he is much more skilled as well as younger and much more explosive.
i think with the extra weight and muscle he will likely lose some speed and explosiveness and gain a bit of strength.

i just think the way he is vastly overwhelming to any WW is what makes him so good + his cardio. I dont think he will have the same advantages at MW he enjoys at WW and there is no proof to think he could be any top MW, he has never fought there or had to put on and keep that kind of muscle over and extended period of time.

Honestly, i find it akin to saying Machida can beat Fedor, why not?? Its hard to win in two weight divisions which is why you rarely have seen it in MMA history.

It's a tall order everybody is asking of GSP, the same order ppl asked of BJ Penn.... beat the greatest of all time in a division above you....
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Old 01-02-2010, 01:26 PM   #56 (permalink)

 
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When you consider we have seen him out wrestle a former LHW champ who is an accomplished wrestler saying he has no chance against Hendo is silly (its likely pretty even with GSP the size he is now). People need to remember the Canadian Olympic team is not gonna let everyone just come in so they can learn the tricks of the trade there has to be some benefit for them, GPS has to be on a good enough level for them to also be improving from his presence.

And in all fairness BJ did beat the greatest of all time in the weight class above him, he beat a prime Matt Hughes, so he had already done it once people merely asked him to repeat it against GSP.
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Old 01-02-2010, 02:03 PM   #57 (permalink)
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When you consider we have seen him out wrestle a former LHW champ who is an accomplished wrestler saying he has no chance against Hendo is silly (its likely pretty even with GSP the size he is now). People need to remember the Canadian Olympic team is not gonna let everyone just come in so they can learn the tricks of the trade there has to be some benefit for them, GPS has to be on a good enough level for them to also be improving from his presence.

And in all fairness BJ did beat the greatest of all time in the weight class above him, he beat a prime Matt Hughes, so he had already done it once people merely asked him to repeat it against GSP.
he also got devastated by Hughes but thats neither here nor there as he is a relic now and i dont think he could beat any of the top 5 and they are much more well rounded then he ever was.

Pointing to same taped sparring session with Rashad is really proof of what?? That was on UFC countdown in preparation for a GSP fight.... Rashad wasnt trying to hurt GSP and vice versa. Or use his complete power on him. They are practicing and it's far from a real fight. I have no doubt GSP wouldnt get embarrassed at MW, i think he can beat quite a few ppl, but to say he can just step up weight and do the same thing is asking alot and i would lean towards asking too much.

Do you really think GSP could hang with Rashad in a real match?? Sparring with guys bigger then you is alot different from actually fighting them.
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Old 01-02-2010, 02:04 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Do you really think GSP could hang with Rashad in a real match?? Sparring with guys bigger then you is alot different from actually fighting them.
Now you talking a fight two weight classes higher, why would you even make this point?
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Old 01-02-2010, 02:08 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Now you talking a fight two weight classes higher, why would you even make this point?
how would i not make that point?? Are you reading the thread??? Toxic was saying GSP spars with Rashad all the time as proof he could hang with bigger ppl, so i ask, is sparring the same as fighting?? If it's not, then how is it proof of anything??

Also by the logic raised in this thread, since GSP so easily handles WWs, he can handle two of the greatest MWs of all time (Andy and Hendo) who also happen to be top ranked LHWs (Dan used to be LHW champion). If he can step up so easily and beat Hendo or Andy why not step up again aswell?? Wouldnt make much sense that he could demolish them both at 185 and cant hang with either at 205?

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Old 01-02-2010, 02:10 PM   #60 (permalink)
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how would i not make that point?? Are you reading the thread??? Toxic was saying GSP spars with Rashad all the time as proof he could hang with bigger ppl, so i ask, is sparring the same as fighting?? If it's not, then how is it proof of anything??
Proving he can wrestle with bigger guys...
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