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Old 01-03-2010, 09:05 PM   #11 (permalink)

 
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Originally Posted by Hawndo View Post
I know it isn't scored like this, but it should be or at least getting straight back up is just as valuable as getting a take down.
So should not being knocked out by a punch be as valuable as throwing one? Should escaping a submission be worth as much as applying one? I couldn't disagree more with you.

That said, I don't see why everyone is raving about Rashad's wrestling, sure his takedowns looked fairly good but his top control was crap, Thiago was basically able to stand up at will, personally I don't think Rashad looked that good on the ground.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Inkdot View Post
Rounds 1 and 2 were correctly scored 10-9 for Rashad, he controlled the fight with takedowns and wrestling but failed to do any damage. However judging in my opinion needs more nuance then the almost standard 10-9 result. You could make the argument that round 3 could have gone 10-8 for Silva since he clearly had Rashad hurt with rashad failing to do anything significant in return wich would make the fight a draw.

Im not saying thats how the fight should have been judged, in this case I would be equally content with 29-28 as with 28-28 decision, I see arguments for judges going both ways, however id like 10-8 to be a much more common result in judging. That would allow more fair scoring when a fight has two close rounds for fighter A follow by a dominant round for fighter B for example.
Exactly, thats what I mentioned in the pre/post fight Rashad vs. Thaigo thread. Judges should be allowed to score a 10:8 for such a round like Thiago did, even through I have to admit that he must have been doing a littel bit more to get 10:8. The half point scoring systeme would be fine. We need someting for the judges, it can't always be 10:9! Judges are afraid of giving a 10:8 round wich shouldn't be the case and wich the half point scoring systeme would help to fix.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Exactly. But it dosent matter if you call it 10-8.5 or 10-8 or 2-0, a whole point of half point, the result is the same. Judges need new directives on how to base the magnitude on scores. In reality right now there is really only one result possible (exept for rare cases) and that is 10-9, you can call that 1-0, 1000-1 or simply a win, but its still basically one possible outcome of rounds as it is now. I think you, me, and many other agree that this needs to change.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:23 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Essentially what Ace said highlights exactly why Rashad won this fight. I didn't enjoy Rashad's performance at all, however, for a couple of reasons.

First, Rashad's game plan appeared to me more of one that prevented any action from occurring for as long as he could, with clinch work and take downs. What bothered me was not the strategy of outpointing an opponent, but the clear desire to not even engage. It's not like Rashad was waiting for a good opportunity to counter strike Thiago, or even pound him out on the ground. His strategy was simply to pin Thiago down and prevent him from doing as much as he could, until the fight ended -- knowing that if he did so, he would win on points. It's hard for me to enjoy a fighter who lacks the ability to end a fight, and even more, shows no interest in ending a fight. I think Joe Rogan said it well ... Rashad can't feel too good about that win.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Servatose View Post
Essentially what Ace said highlights exactly why Rashad won this fight. I didn't enjoy Rashad's performance at all, however, for a couple of reasons.
Haha I must be the only one who enjoys the takedowns and pure wrestling aspects of a fight. A well executed takedown to me is as fun to watch as a sub/nice punch! A lot of people like watching pure wrestling aswell, so wrestling with punches is even better even if noone is finished.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:30 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I think the concept of octagon control via top position or keeping someone pinned against the cage is the main problem. Would it be so awful if we threw out octagon control and went entirely with effective striking, perceived damage, and attempted submissions?

As it is, it's far too easy (and increasingly more common) for a wrestler to win via "octagon control" while making the fight boring, inflicting virtually no damage, and running out the clock on fighters who are trying to engage.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stlarch21 View Post
watched the Rashad Silva fight and like many others i was left wondering over the value of a takedown. i'm not a rashad fan but he controlled the first 2 rounds for sure with this wrestling although landed nothing after the takedowns... the most significant damage was done in the 3rd by silva (a la vera vs. couture). so my question is why are takedowns valued so highly if there are no shots landed after?

LOL......In short I dunno know, but i guess more than standing in the center of the cage with your hands down at your side.....What the hell was he thinking.....
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:41 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by coldcall420 View Post
LOL......In short I dunno know, but i guess more than standing in the center of the cage with your hands down at your side.....What the hell was he thinking.....
I think he was trying to provoke rashad into making a mistake he could capitalize on. What i can't understand is why he backed of when he had Rashad hurt. Must have been really tired or something.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkdot View Post
I think he was trying to provoke rashad into making a mistake he could capitalize on. What i can't understand is why he backed of when he had Rashad hurt. Must have been really tired or something.

I totally agree with you:

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/68790-of...ml#post1083875
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:46 PM   #20 (permalink)

 
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Originally Posted by Shoegazer View Post
I think the concept of octagon control via top position or keeping someone pinned against the cage is the main problem. Would it be so awful if we threw out octagon control and went entirely with effective striking, perceived damage, and attempted submissions?

As it is, it's far too easy (and increasingly more common) for a wrestler to win via "octagon control" while making the fight boring, inflicting virtually no damage, and running out the clock on fighters who are trying to engage.
I really dislike when people say this as the fact submission attempts are scored is just as faulty, we see people use submission attempts all the time as a distraction to gain an opening to either attack with another sub or improve position. Since they are not really intended to as a submission why should they be worth points? Then you have strikes that aren't meant to do damage but rather to set up a TD or a big shot, should they count since they don't do damage?
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