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Old 01-03-2010, 09:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Inkdot View Post
Haha I must be the only one who enjoys the takedowns and pure wrestling aspects of a fight. A well executed takedown to me is as fun to watch as a sub/nice punch! A lot of people like watching pure wrestling aswell, so wrestling with punches is even better even if noone is finished.
No, no. I understand your point. I also enjoy such technical aspects of a fight. I suppose it just felt more like Rashad had no intention of actually ending the fight, which is what bothered me.

GSP is a good example of a very technical wrestler who albeit his take-down oriented fight style, tries to end fights. Watching Rashad versus Thiago made me feel like what Rashad was trying to do was get away with not having to fight Thiago for as long as he possibly could.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:47 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Toxic View Post

That said, I don't see why everyone is raving about Rashad's wrestling, sure his takedowns looked fairly good but his top control was crap, Thiago was basically able to stand up at will, personally I don't think Rashad looked that good on the ground.
Exactly, Rashad's ground game and ground control was seriously terrible. That's definitely a huge weak spot. I was really surprised at this, also these two are definitely not main event fighters.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:06 PM   #23 (permalink)

 
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I would also like to point out that Rashad's dumbest act last night may have been when he had the opportunity to take Silva down in the middle of the cage he had him up but instead of slamming him down in the middle of the cage he instead basically carried him across the cage and ran into the cage wall, WTF?
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stlarch21 View Post
watched the Rashad Silva fight and like many others i was left wondering over the value of a takedown. i'm not a rashad fan but he controlled the first 2 rounds for sure with this wrestling although landed nothing after the takedowns... the most significant damage was done in the 3rd by silva (a la vera vs. couture). so my question is why are takedowns valued so highly if there are no shots landed after?
Nothing, but if you can stop the opponent by do anything to you the entire round by laying on him unfortunately you win.

The fight for sure should've been a draw, but no way 3 judges score a round 10-8, especially considering Thiago didn't really dominate it, a la GSP-Fitch round 1
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:09 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Toxic View Post
I really dislike when people say this as the fact submission attempts are scored is just as faulty, we see people use submission attempts all the time as a distraction to gain an opening to either attack with another sub or improve position. Since they are not really intended to as a submission why should they be worth points? Then you have strikes that aren't meant to do damage but rather to set up a TD or a big shot, should they count since they don't do damage?
Clearly, the judges should only score points for am armbar attempt when the grappler actually has the arm and is cranking, etc.

Beside, I have yet to see a controversial fight where a win was given to someone whose majority of offense was feigning submission attempts. When/if this ever actually became a problem for scoring, and too many fighters were killing time and winning rounds by scoring with fake submission attempts, we could address it then. I doubt it ever comes up.

As for non-damaging strikes, no, I don't think they should count for much. I don't see a problem here, as judges already account for this (i.e. Fighter lands 10 shots that appear to not faze Fighter B while Fighter B lands 2 shots that buckle Fighter A).

9 out of 10 times, the round will be awarded to Fighter B.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:18 PM   #26 (permalink)
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If anything the fight was correctly scored to Rashad for the slams alone. Those actually can do a lot of damage. And even fightmetric, which hates lay and prayers gave Rashad a high grapple score for the fight. They also had him the overall winner.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:23 PM   #27 (permalink)
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with a takedown, you have the advantage over the fighter which can lead to exhaustion of the other fighter which helps you take control of them letting you go to any spot you want to inflict the maximum amount of damage
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:26 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roflcopter View Post
Nothing, but if you can stop the opponent by do anything to you the entire round by laying on him unfortunately you win.

The fight for sure should've been a draw, but no way 3 judges score a round 10-8, especially considering Thiago didn't really dominate it, a la GSP-Fitch round 1

Are you saying a take down isn't worth anything in Mixed Martial Arts???? Like Rashad taking Thiago down last night didn't score or impose effective position??
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:26 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Another thing, those two big slams into side mount CLEARLY had an effect on Thiago. It completely exhausted him as intended. So although Rashad fought a shitty fight, he did enough to win.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:28 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Roflcopter View Post
If anything the fight was correctly scored to Rashad for the slams alone. Those actually can do a lot of damage. And even fightmetric, which hates lay and prayers gave Rashad a high grapple score for the fight. They also had him the overall winner.
Can do a lot of damage, but in this case, didn't. The fight was scored correctly with the existing criteria, but I still feel the scoring system needs tweaking.
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