Arm Bar Referee Stoppage - Page 2 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
UFC The Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) is a U.S.-based mixed martial arts organization, recognized as the largest MMA promotion in the world. The UFC is headquartered in Las Vegas, Nevada and is owned and operated by Zuffa, LLC. This promotion is responsible for solidifying the sport's postion in the history-books. UFC is currently undergoing a remarkable surge in popularity, along with greater mainstream media coverage. UFC programming can now be seen on FOX, FX, and FUEL TV in the United States, as well as in 35 other countries worldwide.

Reply

Old 01-12-2010, 04:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
SPEED KILLS
 
SM33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,647
SM33 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemSM33 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemSM33 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemSM33 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemSM33 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemSM33 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemSM33 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemSM33 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemSM33 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemSM33 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemSM33 Is Beyond A Rankings System
Quote:
the one last night that was clearly un-escapable
But miracles do happen and there is a way out of everything, the problem is the debates it would cause. "it looked locked in ref but I was just about to escape, I had it under control"

There's no definitive way of judging it, like you can judge if someone is asleep or not, so it should be up to the fighters. They are pros after all, they know the risks.

I reckon there could be rules on it though. If a fighter is generally a submission artist and breaks a limb on someone, he should get a warning that if he breaks something again, his motives and technique will be reviewed. There is a middle ground between breaking someone's limb and not holding the submission tight enough to be effective.

E.G if when you get an armbar and they are quite defencless, if you yank it back as hard and fast as you can, you could say you were trying to do damage, which shouldn't be allowed. Then again that creates a grey area in that fast grappling results in fast submissions.

All in all I think if one fighter has a reputation for doing it to people, he should be questioned about it. Otherwise, it's just the nature of the sport.
SM33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 01-12-2010, 04:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
Sleepy
 
Hawndo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 2,137
Hawndo Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatHawndo Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatHawndo Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatHawndo Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatHawndo Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatHawndo Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatHawndo Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatHawndo Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatHawndo Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatHawndo Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatHawndo Is A Pound 4 Pound Great
Quote:
Originally Posted by SM33 View Post
But miracles do happen and there is a way out of everything, the problem is the debates it would cause. "it looked locked in ref but I was just about to escape, I had it under control"
That's my biggest problem with it, if a ref stops it mid-armbar and well, if Maia can claim he wasn't out against Nate then people can easily claim they were just about to escape. refs are under enough scrutiny just now, this just adds to it.

Plus some fighters are just full of excuses.
Hawndo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2010, 05:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
Super Heavyweight
 
AlphaDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,014
AlphaDawg Is Beloved By AllAlphaDawg Is Beloved By AllAlphaDawg Is Beloved By AllAlphaDawg Is Beloved By AllAlphaDawg Is Beloved By AllAlphaDawg Is Beloved By AllAlphaDawg Is Beloved By AllAlphaDawg Is Beloved By AllAlphaDawg Is Beloved By AllAlphaDawg Is Beloved By AllAlphaDawg Is Beloved By All
No. Some fighters are more flexible, have a higher pain tolerance, etc and can actually get out of the armbar and win the fight. Andre Winner faced a guy where he had his opponent in a triangle choke and turned it into an armbar. Disgusting angle on the arm but he managed to reverse the situation and the fight went on.
AlphaDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2010, 05:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
Flyweight
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 494
munkie is a glorious beacon of lightmunkie is a glorious beacon of lightmunkie is a glorious beacon of lightmunkie is a glorious beacon of lightmunkie is a glorious beacon of lightmunkie is a glorious beacon of lightmunkie is a glorious beacon of lightmunkie is a glorious beacon of lightmunkie is a glorious beacon of lightmunkie is a glorious beacon of lightmunkie is a glorious beacon of light
**** what the referee thinks. If it were up to Cecil Peoples, the second someone is caught in the loose front facelock after having his shot stuffed, he'd see that as an inescapable submission and end. So **** the refs. If a headstrong fighter isn't smart enough to realize that his arm is gonna break if he doesn't tap, then that's his **** up.
munkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2010, 05:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
Flyweight
 
Halfraq9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Monroe, WA USA
Posts: 314
Halfraq9 is a splendid one to beholdHalfraq9 is a splendid one to beholdHalfraq9 is a splendid one to beholdHalfraq9 is a splendid one to beholdHalfraq9 is a splendid one to beholdHalfraq9 is a splendid one to beholdHalfraq9 is a splendid one to beholdHalfraq9 is a splendid one to beholdHalfraq9 is a splendid one to beholdHalfraq9 is a splendid one to beholdHalfraq9 is a splendid one to behold
Like the earlier posts have stated. These guys are pros. and have been in the game awhile. They know when to tap and don't need to be micro managed. The only reason I can see for a ref. stopping a fight because of a sub is if one of the fighters cannot physically tap out, such as if they are unconscious or have all their tied up, for example.
Halfraq9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2010, 06:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
Featherweight
 
Brydon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posts: 1,384
Brydon is on another level nowBrydon is on another level nowBrydon is on another level nowBrydon is on another level nowBrydon is on another level nowBrydon is on another level nowBrydon is on another level nowBrydon is on another level nowBrydon is on another level nowBrydon is on another level nowBrydon is on another level now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soakked View Post
Allow fighters to take that risk if they want to, they know of the consequences. There are some fighters that have gotten out of nasty armbars before, why prevent them from that chance if that's the road they want to take.
I agree, a couple events back Alemida got caught in a really tight armbar but wiggled out and ended up winning the fight.

One of the guys I train BJJ with was recently reffing an ameatuer fight. One of the guys got caught in a deep deep armbar but refused to tap so he stopped the fight. The crowd went completly nuts and booed him for the remainder of the evening. I completly agree with his decision in this situation as an ameateur fight if relativly unimportant and it is better to save the guy from himself.

In a professional MMA you tap or it snaps and that is how it should be. The crowd would go insane if a fight was stopped without a tap, as would the fighter who was hanging in their. The guy may have been able to escape, may have been able to endure the pain, the guy with the sub may think he doesnt have it and let go. There are nowhere near enough cases where guys get serious injuries from not tapping to bring in a no tap stoppage (unless they are unconscious obviosly).
Brydon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2010, 10:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
Amatuer
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 160
fightpragmatist is a jewel in the roughfightpragmatist is a jewel in the roughfightpragmatist is a jewel in the roughfightpragmatist is a jewel in the roughfightpragmatist is a jewel in the roughfightpragmatist is a jewel in the roughfightpragmatist is a jewel in the roughfightpragmatist is a jewel in the roughfightpragmatist is a jewel in the roughfightpragmatist is a jewel in the roughfightpragmatist is a jewel in the rough
Just gotta leave it up to the fighters, they are professionals they know when their arm is at it's breaking point.

If the athletic commission starts to allow refs to stop fights during sub attempts, while the fighter is still conscious, I could see more early stoppage situations in the future that a fighter could have possibly got out of whether it be an armbar, choke etc.
fightpragmatist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2010, 12:29 AM   #18 (permalink)
Lightweight
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Flint,Michigan
Posts: 1,806
Wookie is on another level nowWookie is on another level nowWookie is on another level nowWookie is on another level nowWookie is on another level nowWookie is on another level nowWookie is on another level nowWookie is on another level nowWookie is on another level nowWookie is on another level nowWookie is on another level now
Hey it's their arm! The ref doesn't really know how tight a sub is sometimes. I would be p*ssed if people started getting ripped off because of questionable ref's opinions, it happens enough with tko's.
Wookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2010, 01:00 AM   #19 (permalink)
<= MODERATOR=>
 
Xerxes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,224
Xerxes Is Beloved By AllXerxes Is Beloved By AllXerxes Is Beloved By AllXerxes Is Beloved By AllXerxes Is Beloved By AllXerxes Is Beloved By AllXerxes Is Beloved By AllXerxes Is Beloved By AllXerxes Is Beloved By AllXerxes Is Beloved By AllXerxes Is Beloved By All
I disagree TS. Look at Bendo/Cerrone or Huerta/Gray.

The fighters know their body better than anyone else and it's their responsibility to tap out and have the ref step in.

If they get a limb broken they can only blame themselves and no one else.
Xerxes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2010, 03:10 AM   #20 (permalink)
MMA Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 62
kujo45 Needs A Hugkujo45 Needs A Hugkujo45 Needs A Hugkujo45 Needs A Hugkujo45 Needs A Hugkujo45 Needs A Hugkujo45 Needs A Hugkujo45 Needs A Hugkujo45 Needs A Hugkujo45 Needs A Hugkujo45 Needs A Hug
for another example, the royce/hughes fight. that one looked bad; and matt said he heard some pops. But royce pushed on, only to give up his back and get pounded out in an absolutely piss-poor performance
kujo45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios