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Old 01-12-2010, 02:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Arm Bar Referee Stoppage

I don't want to turn UFC into some kind of pansy game, but last night's Escudero fight made me think that maybe some of these guys need to be saved from themselves. This guy is really lucky his arm didn't snap in at least one place. I'm not sure of how the rules work, but in your opinion, should the ref stop fights where the guy is clearly done by an arm bar but is too determined or tough to tap before it breaks? It's a real shame when a promising guy loses his career because he's too tough/determined/foolish to tap.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I dunno, it would save some headstrong fighters but seeing as how there can be so much distrust in TKO stoppages sometimes I don't really see why.

If you don't tap you snap, people just have to learn the consequences and a wise man will always learn from the mistakes of others.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Allow fighters to take that risk if they want to, they know of the consequences. There are some fighters that have gotten out of nasty armbars before, why prevent them from that chance if that's the road they want to take.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Absolutely not, these guys are grown men and know the risks of not tapping. If you started allowing refs to stop fights due to arm bars, you'd have to let them do the same to every other submission... which would create more controversial endings then ever!
Simply put, if you can't get out, tap out... if you're not smart or good enough to do either, it's your own fault.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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No, these are professional fighters, they can decide for themselves if they want to tap or not, it is their career, and honestly.. no one can decide better then the guy about to get his arm broken..

they need to set aside their pride and tap, or have a short career.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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i agree fighters know the consequences if they dont tap, certain guys would prefer to get put to sleep when caught in guollitines(sp) so if they want to get there arm broke then let them. Ive had a broken forearm and arm and id rather swallow my pride and tap if given a choice but thats just me.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't think pride has anything to do with it, no one will think less of you if you tap.

At the time I think it's more instinctive to tap than just let it happen, but sometimes you're instinct can say 'there's a way out of this'. Sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't...

You'd be a fool to think that not tapping will reserve a tough man image, because you're not tough to anyone with only one arm.

IMO the ref shouldn't be allowed to stop it though when it looks un-escapable, cus anything can happen. That would cause so many complictions and controversies.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SM33 View Post
IMO the ref shouldn't be allowed to stop it though when it looks un-escapable
Those are the situations I was thinking about SM, like the one last night that was clearly un-escapable. Escudero was not even trying to get out of it for 30 seconds before he tapped.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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There are guys who wont tap even if their arms do snap (Re: Sylvia vs. Mir fight) and that is when the ref needs to step in.
I could prolly list couple dozens of "miracle escapes" from submissions and I don't want fighters getting screwed just because Mazzagati thinks there is a chance for the arm to snap when in reality that armbar may not even be setup properly yet.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The problem with them stopping it when it looks unescapable is that is leaves a lot of room for some very subjective reffing. We have seen fights where fighters are getting pounded on and the refs step in and still there is a lot of discussion on the timeliness of the stoppages. Further, we have seen many fights where an armbar looks deep but the fighter is able to roll out of it.

I was thinking the same thing watching the fight last night, but such a rule would only lead to more and more criticisim over referee stoppages. I would hate to see a title fight inappropriately stopped because a ref "thinks" a figher couldn't escape.
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