Daley: I'll never fight my mate Dan - Page 6 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
UFC The Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) is a U.S.-based mixed martial arts organization, recognized as the largest MMA promotion in the world. The UFC is headquartered in Las Vegas, Nevada and is owned and operated by Zuffa, LLC. This promotion is responsible for solidifying the sport's postion in the history-books. UFC is currently undergoing a remarkable surge in popularity, along with greater mainstream media coverage. UFC programming can now be seen on FOX, FX, and FUEL TV in the United States, as well as in 35 other countries worldwide.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #51 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-15-2010, 08:57 AM
JWP
Featherweight
 
JWP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,165
                     
although i believe fighters should always aspire to fight the best no matter who it is, im certain different fighters would have different views on the topic. i also wouldnt blame someone for not wanting to fight

im not sure that the fact i have trained makes my opinion more valid, maybe it does

Favourite Fighters
Anderson Silva
Mark Hunt
Bisping
Fedor
Machida
Pettis
Aldo
McGregor
'John' Wayne Parr
Nathan 'Carnage' Corbett
Bruce Lee
JWP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-15-2010, 09:18 AM
Invictus Maneo
Image Hosting by Picoodle.com
 
TheGrizzlyBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 983
Blog Entries: 2
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogo View Post
LOLOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Lots of fighters, even close friends or brothers as you pointed out, are willing to fight each other. If you think that because you are close to some training partners that somehow makes it ok you're wrong and demonstrably so since lots (most) other fighters are willing to do their job.

If you can't understand something as simple as separation of job and friendship then don't go into MMA, period. There are lots of jobs where the issue won't come up, do one of those.
Most fighter are willing to fight their training partners? thats news to me... Then why haven't the WW from AKA, Kos, Swick, Fitch etc. fought each other yet, and have said publicly they won't fight each other. Machida and Silva have said they won't fight each other either.

Sure like I said there are fighters that will fight anyone, but I bet most fighters would turn down a title fight/#1 contender fight if it where against a guy that they train with day in and day out.

its not just because you're friends with them, its the whole gyms problem too... both fighters would have to leave the place they train to go train elsewhere it wouldn't be fair to the coaches/fighters to have to corner one guy against the other when you want to see them both do well...

TheGrizzlyBear is offline  
post #53 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-15-2010, 09:38 AM
Featherweight
 
Bob Pataki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,048
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogo View Post
LOLOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Lots of fighters, even close friends or brothers as you pointed out, are willing to fight each other. If you think that because you are close to some training partners that somehow makes it ok you're wrong and demonstrably so since lots (most) other fighters are willing to do their job.

If you can't understand something as simple as separation of job and friendship then don't go into MMA, period. There are lots of jobs where the issue won't come up, do one of those.
You like to describe it in such basic terms, like MMA is the same as any other job. You're wrong, it is not. MMA athletes seek to inflict damage to their opponent through combat, they are not working in a local shop.

It doesn't matter if some fighters are willing to do it, that means they probably are less bothered about the damage that can be caused in a fight. The dangers of MMA are very real, and when you've got hands like Anderson Silva or Paul Daley you know you could leave a best mate unconcious on the mat.

It doesn't matter how much you simplify it, how much you compare it to regular jobs or other sports, MMA is an entirely different beast with a high KO ratio. No amount of training or money changes the fact that brain injuries in particular are serious business.

Don't bother saying they shouldn't be fighters if they can't accept the dangers, because again that's just a pointless oversimplification. Dangers involved when you don't know the other guy and he wants to smash you are different to dangers when you are close friends with the other guy and neither of you want to do it. It becomes a very uncomfortable situation.

The concerns of damaging someone permanently, on purpose, cannot just be ignored by some people. You really should understand this.
Bob Pataki is offline  
post #54 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-15-2010, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
of Nazareth
 
Soojooko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Moon
Posts: 9,747
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pataki View Post
You like to describe it in such basic terms, like MMA is the same as any other job. You're wrong, it is not. MMA athletes seek to inflict damage to their opponent through combat, they are not working in a local shop.

It doesn't matter if some fighters are willing to do it, that means they probably are less bothered about the damage that can be caused in a fight. The dangers of MMA are very real, and when you've got hands like Anderson Silva or Paul Daley you know you could leave a best mate unconcious on the mat.

It doesn't matter how much you simplify it, how much you compare it to regular jobs or other sports, MMA is an entirely different beast with a high KO ratio. No amount of training or money changes the fact that brain injuries in particular are serious business.

Don't bother saying they shouldn't be fighters if they can't accept the dangers, because again that's just a pointless oversimplification. Dangers involved when you don't know the other guy and he wants to smash you are different to dangers when you are close friends with the other guy and neither of you want to do it. It becomes a very uncomfortable situation.

The concerns of damaging someone permanently, on purpose, cannot just be ignored by some people. You really should understand this.
Bob, nothing you are saying is untrue. But knowing the complications, why train as part of a team to begin with?

True, It isn't fair. I can completely see two fighters from the same gym climbing the ladder to the point they are competing for a belt and finding themselves unable to fight. But, training as part of a team will always create these issues. It is MMA. A one-to-one sport. Training in "teams" for one-to-one combat is great when your teams are also opposing. eg. One country against another. But to use the example of kos, Swick and Fitch. All welterweights. All of them WANT the same belt. They fecking talk about it enough and how they "deserve" it. But, they wont fight!? Somethings got to give. What happens if Fitch holds the belt. Will Kos suddenly believe hes not the best WW in the UFC?

Its all very well talking about damaging friends and the ethics of it. Its difficult to argue for pummelling your friends head in. But when you are top ranked, what about the damage to the legitimacy of the sport?

Are we seriously suggesting the whole gym/team thing is a good thing for competition?
Soojooko is online now  
post #55 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-15-2010, 10:07 AM
Invictus Maneo
Image Hosting by Picoodle.com
 
TheGrizzlyBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 983
Blog Entries: 2
                     
If you arn't training in teams, who are you going to train with?

Who's going to push you to the next level before the next fight, if no one trained in teams whats the point of helping other fighters prepare for a fight.

TheGrizzlyBear is offline  
post #56 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-15-2010, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
of Nazareth
 
Soojooko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Moon
Posts: 9,747
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrizzlyBear View Post
If you arn't training in teams, who are you going to train with?

Who's going to push you to the next level before the next fight, if no one trained in teams whats the point of helping other fighters prepare for a fight.
I ment long term. Like training in the same camp for years. A fighter can switch training partners. My point was that this tight bond that generates inside long term teams will conflict with your career big time if several of you are going for a belt. You know its not necessary to train with the same guys you are in DIRECT competition with for the same prize. GSP, Penn, Silva, Machida and Lesnar all manage to increase their skills without training with direct competitors.

I know Silva has been criticized for not fighting Lyoto, but to be fair they are not in the same weight class. If they dont fancy the fight, then so be it. At least it doesn't feck up all the rankings for MW and LHW.
Soojooko is online now  
post #57 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-15-2010, 10:27 AM
Invictus Maneo
Image Hosting by Picoodle.com
 
TheGrizzlyBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 983
Blog Entries: 2
                     
But its not just the training partners in a camp its the coaches... lets put it this way...

Say your a UFC fighter, and you've been training with Greg Jackson (by far one of the best MMA coaches out there) and you get offered a shot at being the next in line for a title but you have to fight a training partner for it... What do you do? do you leave one of the best camps in the world for this shot? You can't make him leave either... and you sure as hell wouldn't train together to fight each other either...

Like i said its not just the bond you make with your training partners its with your whole coaching staff as well.

TheGrizzlyBear is offline  
post #58 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-15-2010, 10:28 AM
JWP
Featherweight
 
JWP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,165
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
Bob, nothing you are saying is untrue. But knowing the complications, why train as part of a team to begin with?

True, It isn't fair. I can completely see two fighters from the same gym climbing the ladder to the point they are competing for a belt and finding themselves unable to fight. But, training as part of a team will always create these issues. It is MMA. A one-to-one sport. Training in "teams" for one-to-one combat is great when your teams are also opposing. eg. One country against another. But to use the example of kos, Swick and Fitch. All welterweights. All of them WANT the same belt. They fecking talk about it enough and how they "deserve" it. But, they wont fight!? Somethings got to give. What happens if Fitch holds the belt. Will Kos suddenly believe hes not the best WW in the UFC?

Its all very well talking about damaging friends and the ethics of it. Its difficult to argue for pummelling your friends head in. But when you are top ranked, what about the damage to the legitimacy of the sport?

Are we seriously suggesting the whole gym/team thing is a good thing for competition?
this is a very good post. and it re-iterates my point in a way. it is an individual sport where the top guys are pursuing excellence. i would imagine they should want to test themselves against the best

the gym/team thing is an interesting and valid point

Favourite Fighters
Anderson Silva
Mark Hunt
Bisping
Fedor
Machida
Pettis
Aldo
McGregor
'John' Wayne Parr
Nathan 'Carnage' Corbett
Bruce Lee
JWP is offline  
post #59 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-15-2010, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
of Nazareth
 
Soojooko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Moon
Posts: 9,747
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrizzlyBear View Post
But its not just the training partners in a camp its the coaches... lets put it this way...

Say your a UFC fighter, and you've been training with Greg Jackson (by far one of the best MMA coaches out there) and you get offered a shot at being the next in line for a title but you have to fight a training partner for it... What do you do? do you leave one of the best camps in the world for this shot? You can't make him leave either... and you sure as hell wouldn't train together to fight each other either...

Like i said its not just the bond you make with your training partners its with your whole coaching staff as well.
Exactly my point Griz. What would you do? The fact that there is no answer... at least not one that doesn't tear your life apart, is pretty much what I'm saying. Its a very productive way to learn MMA, as part of a team. Also very productive regards making you a better fighter. All true. But, very unproductive when trying to establish who are the best fighters in the world. See what I saying? How do we solve that? I don't really know to be honest.

Great fooking debate chaps.
Soojooko is online now  
post #60 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-15-2010, 10:37 AM
Invictus Maneo
Image Hosting by Picoodle.com
 
TheGrizzlyBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 983
Blog Entries: 2
                     
you really can't solve it i think, some guys arn't going to want to fight each other and people are going to have to deal with it.

like the guys from AKA will never fight each other unless someone leaves that camp, and I don't really think that will happen anytime soon where those guys will still be considered in or near top 10 in the world.

TheGrizzlyBear is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome