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Old 01-16-2010, 05:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
Yeah, that's why the smallest HW in Randy did the best against Lesnar.
Couture has some of the best wrestling of any MMA fighter. It allowed him to survive against Lesnar. He was still losing the fight in all regards except possibly octagon control. He just wasn't getting his ass whooped.

Someone his size without amazing wrestling is going to get beat down by Lesnar. There is only one other fighter that has really good wrestling in the HW division and you think he is garbage...

Mir can work on his wrestling and it will help him but he isn't going to get to a level even close to those fighters. Bulking up and increasing his strength is his best and most readily available tool in giving him a chance of winning the title back.
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Old 01-16-2010, 05:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Mir hypes himself so much it's unbelievable. i respect him as a fighter but nothing else.
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Old 01-16-2010, 05:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Couture has some of the best wrestling of any MMA fighter. It allowed him to survive against Lesnar. He was still losing the fight in all regards except possibly octagon control. He just wasn't getting his ass whooped.

Someone his size without amazing wrestling is going to get beat down by Lesnar. There is only one other fighter that has really good wrestling in the HW division and you think he is garbage...

Mir can work on his wrestling and it will help him but he isn't going to get to a level even close to those fighters. Bulking up and increasing his strength is his best and most readily available tool in giving him a chance of winning the title back.
There's a lot of wrestlers at HW. If you're talking about Velasquez... that dude is probably the worst match for Brock. He's like a mini Brock.

Nog has better wrestling than Couture (as he showed when he threw Randy around), and I think he'd stand a much better chance against Lesnar. And it has nothing to do with his size.

Fedor would beat Brock but not because he's bigger. JDS will likely beat Brock in the future and it won't be because of his size.

If Mir beats him again I doubt it will be because of 20lbs, it'll likely be because of a much improved TDD, a way better game plan, and improved striking.
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Old 01-16-2010, 05:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I hope your beloved JDS fights Lesnar. Lesnar would take him down and pound him out. I like JDS too but he doesn't have the tools to beat Lesnar, his only chance would be to knock him out before the fight went to the ground.

And Nog didn't outwrestle Couture... I had to go watch the fight because I couldn't remember this happening and it didn't. There was very little wrestling in that fight. Nog used his great jiu jitsu to sweep Couture in the 2nd and Couture did the same thing in the 3rd. The other times Nog had control of Couture on the ground was after he rocked him and pounced him, not because he wrestled him to the ground.

Using Fedor as an argument isn't fair either. And I am in the camp that thinks Lesnar might actually be able to overwhelm him because of the size advantage.

Edit: And I agree that I don't think Lesnar would be a good match up for Velasquez. But Velasquez would look decent against him and would survive for at least a while because of his wrestling.

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Old 01-16-2010, 05:57 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
Repped for getting on the JDS train, you won't regret it.


Mir has decent power in his hands and strong submissions, but he's got zero wrestling and zero power in his legs. I also think he might be playing into this weight thing WAY too much.
Yeah, JDS is the real deal doesn't get the respect he deserves. To be honest, I think it's an insult that he's fighting GG at FN21.
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Old 01-16-2010, 06:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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good post, even though i may not agree with everything you wrote.

one thing i will comment on is that you say he needs to change if he is gunna be a force in the hw division(which he kinda already is ) he will need to change. my answer to this is, he is, he is changing almost everything about himself in a somewhat drastic fashion. the thing with mir is that even though he talks allot of crap he is smart he realized the way he was he was going to have trouble with the evolving/de-evolving (however you want to look at it) HW division, so he bulked up drastically in a smart way and has worked on his striking witch has improved allot. honestly with the he needs to work on his takedown defense statement, this i think he should not worry about to much for honestly a fighter can work on takedown defense all he wants but lesner will take them down at will everytime
i don't think the heavy emphasis on striking for Mir is the right path. Sure, it won't hurt to be a better striker, but that's not the tool that will help his chances the most against Brock. He needs to work on his wrestling and using the cage to his advantage like Randy did against Brock.

We'll see about his size, but size doesn't equate to functional strength. Brock has insane functional strength, and Mir will never beat him in this department.

I respect your opinion about spending time working on TDD. If that's the case, then he needs to work on his take downs and transitions so he can get dominant positions. IMO, he came into UFC100 underprepared and with the wrong game plan. Yes, he admitted this, but I don't think he'll have the right plan (putting on mass and furthering his striking) going into Mir/Lesnar III.
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Old 01-16-2010, 06:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
Repped for getting on the JDS train, you won't regret it.


Mir has decent power in his hands and strong submissions, but he's got zero wrestling and zero power in his legs. I also think he might be playing into this weight thing WAY too much.
JDS will realize that size matters soon enough when you have no wrestling base. Mir learned the hard way, the same lesson is coming for JDS except his BJJ isnt as good as Franks and he will be in more trouble on his back then Frank is. Now you got a freak like my boy Cain who has elite wrestling plus is a BJJ world champion. The days of BJJ alone being enough are coming to an end fast, these wrestlers are also bjj guys now so these bjj guys better start learning wrestling or be left behind.

Mirs standup is evovling as we speak, those that continue to ignore this fact will continue to be surprised as Mir continues to outstrike supposedly "better strikers" like Nog and Kongo. I dont think Mirs striking is on a JDS level (frankly, almost nobody in the division is on that level) but it is more then good enough to beat most HWs standing and those he cant likely cant hang on the ground.

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Old 01-16-2010, 06:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GMK13 View Post
Mir hypes himself so much it's unbelievable. i respect him as a fighter but nothing else.
His ego is pretty funny. Watching some of these interviews of his, it wouldn't be surprising if he thought he was the 2nd coming of Jesus.

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Originally Posted by alizio View Post
JDS will realize that size matters soon enough when you have no wrestling base. Mir learned the hard way, the same lesson is coming for JDS except his BJJ isnt as good as Franks and he will be in more trouble on his back then Frank is. Now you got a freak like my boy Cain who has elite wrestling plus is a BJJ world champion. The days of BJJ alone being enough are coming to an end fast, these wrestlers are also bjj guys now so these bjj guys better start learning wrestling or be left behind.

Mirs standup is evovling as we speak, those that continue to ignore this fact will continue to be surprised as Mir continues to outstrike supposedly "better strikers" like Nog and Kongo. I dont think Mirs striking is on a JDS level (frankly, almost nobody in the division is on that level) but it is more then good enough to beat most HWs standing and those he cant likely cant hang on the ground.
I wanted to argue this, but nvm I did my research. Lmao, had no idea he won as a blue belt. Dope.

Had no idea he was a purple belt in BJJ either.
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Old 01-16-2010, 07:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Mir will be the next champion.
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Old 01-16-2010, 07:21 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Mir will be the next champion.
You sir are probably correct although it will be interim champion.
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