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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-23-2010, 01:37 PM
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I dont think Carwin deserves a title shot, but im also a frim believer that Mir is gonna make him look very, very bad and push him all the way to the back of the line where he will end up facing Todd Duffee in his next fight. That is my prediction.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-23-2010, 01:42 PM
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It nearly rivals Valesquez' hype. Valesquez hasn't faced a top 10, his "big win" is a decision over Kongo - who has never fought for a title or even been a #2 contender. Then he gets one of the most absurd stoppages in MMA history over someone in their UFC debut and he gets slated to fight Nogueira?
Sure, that stoppage was early, but you can't honestly tell me you weren't impressed by Velasquez's performance? He absolutely dominated Ben Rothwell, who's no can and AFAIC was only just outside the top 10 before the Velasquez fight. Cain destroyed him, continually picking him up, slamming him on the floor and then punishing him with some vicious Ground and Pound. It could have been stopped earlier really, when Velasquez had Rothwell on his side and was hammering shots in. The actual stoppage was poor, but Velasquez deserved that win, and was nothing but impressive. If you think otherwise, then you need to go and watch that fight again.

For the record, I don't think Cain deserves a title shot, but it's pretty ludicrous that you don't think he even deserves a shot at Nogueira. Who else is going to fight him? JDS won't as they train together, Carwin's busy with Mir, and there's no-one else in the UFC that deserves a go at Nogueira. VElasquez is 7-0, he's getting better and better, he works as hard as any HW I've seen, he's got incredible cardio and some mean G+P. He will test Nogueira, no question about it. Will he beat Nog? I don't think so, but he is legit, and will put up a fight and really challenge Nogueira. I'm hoping he somewhat justifies the hype train in the Nogueira fight, would be awesome to see him pull off a win.

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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-23-2010, 02:01 PM
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Brock going on the shelve is the best thing which could have happened in the HW division for the UFC.
  • Carwin was slated to fight Lesnar which was scrapped. I think he was given this opportunity simply because of his size and the fact he had destroyed everyone he had faced. He than had his own injuries and is now slated for the Interim Belt match against Mir. This was set before the Brock announcement so I really don't think he is getting screwed. It's still for a belt and the winner goes on to fight Lesnar.
  • Mir gets another shot at an interim belt. With Lesnar on the shelve it only makes sense that Carwin fight Mir, the previous champion who put on some weight and destroyed Kongo. He has had 2 impressives wins in his last three matches, and of course the mauling by Brock.
  • Cain has looked okay IMO, yet I still can't get over the fact that he didn't or couldn't KO Rothwell. For as much as he dominated that fight he could still only muster the stoppage. His win over Kongo is a mute point because Mir destroyed Cain. So it only makes sense that he fight Nog.
  • Big Nog looked really bad against Mir, than a complete 180 against Couture, so much so Randy had to go back to the LHWs. He is 3-1 in the UFC with his only loss against Mir. Staph infection theories out of the way, he gets the up and comer Cain.
  • JDS is 4-0 in the UFC. He has looked impressive with wins over Werdum, Struve, Cro Cop and Yvel. IMO the competition he has faced is a step up (understatement?) from the competition of Cain and Carwin. He gets Gonzaga next and it seems as if he is left out of the title picture for the better part of this year.

This is the way I see it unfolding; Mir beats Carwin and gets the shot at Brock. As far as promotion goes Mir vs. Lesnar III will be huge and there is no way that the UFC doesn't make this fight. Nog beats Cain and than he will be in line for the Lesnar/Mir winner. Either way whether it be Lesnar or Mir just makes sense with a fight against Nog. JDS beats GG and will be relegated to fighting either Carwin or Cain. Personally I would rather see him fight Cain and Carwin fight Yvel, Struve or Kongo.

IMO the one getting screwed is JDS, but this is the way everything just unfolded. It should be an interesting year in the HW division.

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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-23-2010, 02:01 PM
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Sure, that stoppage was early, but you can't honestly tell me you weren't impressed by Velasquez's performance? He absolutely dominated Ben Rothwell, who's no can and AFAIC was only just outside the top 10 before the Velasquez fight. Cain destroyed him, continually picking him up, slamming him on the floor and then punishing him with some vicious Ground and Pound. It could have been stopped earlier really, when Velasquez had Rothwell on his side and was hammering shots in. The actual stoppage was poor, but Velasquez deserved that win, and was nothing but impressive. If you think otherwise, then you need to go and watch that fight again.

For the record, I don't think Cain deserves a title shot, but it's pretty ludicrous that you don't think he even deserves a shot at Nogueira. Who else is going to fight him? JDS won't as they train together, Carwin's busy with Mir, and there's no-one else in the UFC that deserves a go at Nogueira. VElasquez is 7-0, he's getting better and better, he works as hard as any HW I've seen, he's got incredible cardio and some mean G+P. He will test Nogueira, no question about it. Will he beat Nog? I don't think so, but he is legit, and will put up a fight and really challenge Nogueira. I'm hoping he somewhat justifies the hype train in the Nogueira fight, would be awesome to see him pull off a win.
I dunno, Gonzaga was beating Carwin just as thoroughly. If the ref had stopped it right as they stood up, Carwin would never have gotten the KO.


And I agree with the above poster, I don't know if Cain or Carwin could even make it past Yvel. Yvel would be Velasquez' biggest test.

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-23-2010, 02:08 PM
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Carwin wasn't taking as much punishment whilst trying to stand up as Rothwell was tbf to the ref. Rothwell was taking some serious shots from Velasquez, with 1 hand on the mat trying to push himself up. It was an early stoppage, but I can see where the ref was coming from; but as I said, it could have been stopped earlier anyway, when Rothwell was taking some serious shots on the ground.

Do you not agree that it was a very good performance from Velasquez then? Because you didn't actually reply to any of my post.

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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-23-2010, 02:22 PM
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Carwin wasn't taking as much punishment whilst trying to stand up as Rothwell was tbf to the ref. Rothwell was taking some serious shots from Velasquez, with 1 hand on the mat trying to push himself up. It was an early stoppage, but I can see where the ref was coming from; but as I said, it could have been stopped earlier anyway, when Rothwell was taking some serious shots on the ground.

Do you not agree that it was a very good performance from Velasquez then? Because you didn't actually reply to any of my post.
Carwin was definitely losing that fight and he had to have surgery on his broken nose as well.

Velasquez was impressive in his fight as he completely dominated Rothwell.


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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-23-2010, 02:27 PM
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Didn't doubt that, I've slated Carwin in the past for his stiff stand-up at the start of fights and the way he'd been rocked by Neil Wain and Gabriel Gonzaga; but iirc, he wasn't taking as much punishment when standing up as Ben Rothwell was prior to the stoppage in that fight.

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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-23-2010, 02:48 PM
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Carwin wasn't taking as much punishment whilst trying to stand up as Rothwell was tbf to the ref. Rothwell was taking some serious shots from Velasquez, with 1 hand on the mat trying to push himself up. It was an early stoppage, but I can see where the ref was coming from; but as I said, it could have been stopped earlier anyway, when Rothwell was taking some serious shots on the ground.

Do you not agree that it was a very good performance from Velasquez then? Because you didn't actually reply to any of my post.
It was a good performance yeah, Velasquez' wrestling is great. But he's got soft hands, and did almost no actual damage to Rothwell and he didn't earn a stoppage, he didn't submit him, he didn't knock him out.

Gonzaga did a lot more damage to Carwin, should the fight have been stopped after GG broke Shane's nose?

It just is a frustrating situation to me, because Velasquez has all this hype around him but we only have basically two fights to go off of. One, where he was rocked hard but was matched up perfectly with his opponent and got a decision, and one where the fight never really had a conclusion.

Look at Carwin's big win in Gonzaga, Gonzaga had NO idea what happened and was out cold, he was finished. Dos Santos has outclassed and wrecked every opponent he's faced - there's no doubt who'd win the rematches there. Mir destroyed Kongo in seconds - which is Valesquez' only big win.

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-23-2010, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
It nearly rivals Valesquez' hype. Valesquez hasn't faced a top 10, his "big win" is a decision over Kongo - who has never fought for a title or even been a #2 contender. Then he gets one of the most absurd stoppages in MMA history over someone in their UFC debut and he gets slated to fight Nogueira?

And what happens next month or so when JDS takes out Gonzaga? How will they justify Carwin's title shot then?
I agree with you, but I do want to see them fight.
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-23-2010, 03:19 PM
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He got screwed a little, but since their fight got cancelled, other top HW's clearly showed that they are equal to him on the Contender list.

Mir crushed Kongo, Cain beat Kongo and Rothwell, JDS beat Werdun, CC, and Yvel...

These are all just as impressive, IMO, as Cain's win over Gonzaga. Hell, they are more impressive IMO.


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