The Beauty about an Takedown artist! - Page 2 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
Why would you want Jones to be crippled so early in his career? C'mon man, the dude's only like 23, he's got plenty to live for.
Well I think it would be a great fight. Who knows, maybe jones could beat em ;P

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Originally Posted by Cptmats View Post
I think shogun vs machida is the best shogun has ever looked against the worst machida we've ever seen. Cant see shogun being able to improve on that performance but im pretty certain Machida will.
the last fight was damb close but not enough on shoguns part to take a champs belt. UFC score round by round and IMO machida took the first three....decision was good !
Machida did look horrible in that fight. But the first two rounds were brutally one sided for shogun. The first time through I thought it was a horrible decision, after the 10th time it was an impossible decision. 49-46 shogun

edit: the reason i gave shogun the first two rounds is that he was twice as accurate with his strikes as machida, landed twice as many strikes as machida, did more damage with those strikes, controlled the octagon, and was more aggressive fighter.

double edit: my bad in the first round he was twice as accurate and landed twice as many shots. In the second round shogun landed 3 times as many strikes.

http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html



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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by xeberus View Post
Machida did look horrible in that fight. But the first two rounds were brutally one sided for shogun. The first time through I thought it was a horrible decision, after the 10th time it was an impossible decision. 49-46 shogun

edit: the reason i gave shogun the first two rounds is that he was twice as accurate with his strikes as machida, landed twice as many strikes as machida, did more damage with those strikes, controlled the octagon, and was more aggressive fighter.
Evey ones entitled to thier opinion i guess the first three were razor thin and would have been tough for any judge to call but i though they were machida rounds, but reguardless i think neither are gonna want to let this happen again, which i think is gonna make one hell of a rematch....maybe fight of the year....definitly has the potential and i will be twenty two rows from the cage
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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Cptmats View Post
Evey ones entitled to thier opinion i guess the first three were razor thin and would have been tough for any judge to call but i though they were machida rounds, but reguardless i think neither are gonna want to let this happen again, which i think is gonna make one hell of a rematch....maybe fight of the year....definitly has the potential and i will be twenty two rows from the cage
Indeed.

I'm calling machida to win lol, we'll just have to see :P



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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 12:32 AM
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when it comes to takedowns its

1. GSP
2. Cain

3. the rest, the two above literally never get stuffed it seems.

honorable mention Jon Jones and those sick throws
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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 06:30 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Diokhan View Post
The one vs. Penn is hilarious. The man with one of the best TDDs in mma gets dropped like a bag of trash..

Nice trips though, very different from GSP's more traditional takedowns. Ufc needs more high caliber judokas now that Sokky and Karo are gone. The judo trips and hip trows are perfect for mma if the user has solid ground game, basically 1 good trip/hip trow and you are already in side control.


I can watch this one all day long! His technique is awesome and something you don't see very often. Most Takedowns are coming from Wrestlers with the douple leg or single leg attack.
But I never saw BJ get dropped that easy again in a fight. It's so funny how Lyoto uses BJ's Budda head to get him on the map

And the ones he did against Sokky and Nakamura are also priceless beautiful.
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 07:51 AM
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Machida actually hit Shogun with that sharp kick to the standing leg on 3 occasions and none of them got him down. There was one in the 3rd that visibly hurt Shogun. So much so, his body counters somewhat dried up afterwards. Still never droped him though... Can you imagine what it must feel like to have Machida kicking your knee on the leg carrying all your weight? God damn... tough motherfukker Rua is. I love that kick. Nobody else in the UFC can pull that shit off. Thats why Lyoto rocks.

EDIT. lol @ using fightmetric as a guide to anything.
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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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If you didn't already know it, Lyoto Machida has exceptional takedowns and takedown defense. Here are his UFC statistics.

VS Sam Hoger
Takedowns 7/9
Takedown defense 4/5

VS David Heath
Takedowns 0/0
Takedown defense 2/2

VS Nakamura
Takedowns 4/6
Takedown defense 5/7

VS Sokoudjou
Takedowns 1/2
Takedown defense 2/4

VS Ortiz
Takedowns 1/2
Takedown defense 8/8

VS Thiago Silva
Takedowns 2/2
Takedown defense 1/1

Total against all opponents
Takedowns 15/21 = 71%
Takedown defense 22/27 = 81%


Relevant points of interest:

1) The UFC average takedown success rate is 45%. The UFC takedown defense success rate is 55%. GSP's takedown success rates are 75% offense and 85% defense.

2) All of Lyoto's takedowns come through leg trip and sweeps.

3) Of the 5 successful takedowns made on Lyoto, 4 have come through Judo type legs trips (Nakamura and Soko) and 1 (Hoger) was by way of a caught kick.

Lyoto has not had a kick caught since that first fight. That makes for 72 minutes and 52 seconds in which he has fought that he hasn't had a kick caught.

4) Lyoto has never been taken down with traditional wrestling (double legs, single legs etc). Ortiz tried 8. Hoger tried 4. Heath tried two. Silva tried 2. None have been successful.

Lyoto is one of greatest TD and TDD fighters in MMA today. His Takedowns and Takedown defense are often overlooked by many. Even after he slipped against Shogun, Rua wasn't able to get him down!

Lyoto is by far one of the best in this aspect of MMA!
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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
Machida actually hit Shogun with that sharp kick to the standing leg on 3 occasions and none of them got him down. There was one in the 3rd that visibly hurt Shogun. So much so, his body counters somewhat dried up afterwards. Still never droped him though... Can you imagine what it must feel like to have Machida kicking your knee on the leg carrying all your weight? God damn... tough motherfukker Rua is. I love that kick. Nobody else in the UFC can pull that shit off. Thats why Lyoto rocks.

EDIT. lol @ using fightmetric as a guide to anything.
Well they are usually pretty accurate. But in this case tons of members have re-watched the fight and counted for themselves and it was right along with fightmetric. But then again, anyone who watched the fight should probably give it to shogun. Anyone who watches it twice should absolutely give it to shogun.



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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by xeberus View Post
Well they are usually pretty accurate. But in this case tons of members have re-watched the fight and counted for themselves and it was right along with fightmetric. But then again, anyone who watched the fight should probably give it to shogun. Anyone who watches it twice should absolutely give it to shogun.
Cant agree there Mr drunk. I broke down that fight on a microscopic level, and FM were wrong.

I stated in my breakdown that I thought Shogun technically won, but understood how rounds 1 to 3 could be given to Lyoto. He did some very cool shit in those rounds whereas Shoguns methods were more crude and very effective. Easy to see how the judges could be affected more by fancy moves : quality over quantity. I'm not saying anything other than, I can "understand" how that fight could have gone to either fighter. It was not a robbery.

Fightmetric often get their numbers completely wrong. I'm not making it up. They allow personal bias to skew thier scores. Ive seen it enough times to completely discredit them.
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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
Cant agree there Mr drunk. I broke down that fight on a microscopic level, and FM were wrong.

I stated in my breakdown that I thought Shogun technically won, but understood how rounds 1 to 3 could be given to Lyoto. He did some very cool shit in those rounds whereas Shoguns methods were more crude and very effective. Easy to see how the judges could be affected more by fancy moves : quality over quantity. I'm not saying anything other than, I can "understand" how that fight could have gone to either fighter. It was not a robbery.

Fightmetric often get their numbers completely wrong. I'm not making it up. They allow personal bias to skew thier scores. Ive seen it enough times to completely discredit them.
Same. I've watched the first two rounds well over 10 times, the first time when I watched it live was the closet I ever got to giving them to machida. I still gave 1 and 2 to shogun, although it was close.. However after re-watching shogun by a fair margin won both the first two rounds.

They may have in the past, the only rounds I really broke down second by second were the first two. I assumed or didn't care about the next three because most people easily gave the 4th and 5th rounds to shogun. Since they got the first two right I didn't really follow up on the rest.

But really what I would like to know is how you can give the first two rounds to machida? Up front its possible by obvious mistake, but it becomes apparent both rounds clearly were won by shogun. What did machida do better than shogun? Point wise how could he have won either of the first two rounds? Something I have yet to understand what so ever.

What gets me about this decision is that it was almost entirely a striking match, I could much easier understand the "bisping hammill" decision as compared to this.



Edit: I just got back from google. Apparently many people have challenged fightmetrics and their scoring. None have discredited them with any facts, and in fact many people believe it to be the most accurate not-biased information about the fights they cover. Since by your accounts they are "discredited" could you please show me why you think so and any evidence or fact on the subject since others have failed in that department?



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