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Old 06-04-2010, 05:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ok, consensus is Brock is the bigger anomaly.
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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jon jones. Kids got skills.
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Calibretto9 View Post
Lyoto doesn't have KO power? Tell that to Rashad and Thiago Silva. He may not be on the top of the KO charts, but he can definitely lay a dude out.
Lyoyo has technique, he's a strong guy and precise striker, his KOs have been countering, trapping, rocking a guy and following up with flurries on the button resulting in KOs. That's not an insult - Machida is a skilled fighter.

I'm talking one strike lights out.
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I could go down to any street court in most major cities and find 5 or 10 guys with similar measurables to John Jones. You would be lucky to find 5 to 10 people on the entire planet with measurables compareable to Brock.
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I could go down to any street court in most major cities and find 5 or 10 guys with similar measurables to John Jones. You would be lucky to find 5 to 10 people on the entire planet with measurables compareable to Brock.

Question wasn't about measureables, it was about people coming into the MMA and being freaks of nature + having skillsets to do things other guys can't, not about statistical dispersions. Yes average 6'2, 300lbs man has more probability fat slobs. The average long limbed 6'4" 220lbs man has less of a probability of being fat slob. But i did say coming in to the MMA.....If it were about measureables, first off, there's hundreds of guys not in the MMA that are freaks of nature - College and NFL linemen for example. Not talking about statistical dispersions of the entire world's population.

Talking about guys coming in to MMA that can do things other guys can't and dominating.

If you read the OP, it's about guys that come in the MMA and do unreal things from the get go, both Jones and Brock would likely be regular somewhat athletic dudes if they hadn't worked their asses off and became high school state and college wrestling national champs be it Jones was a JUCO champ drop out. This is the point in time where "freak of nature" reference comes in.

Brock was destructive right from the get go, and he got an early shot at the title and is champ, yes, based mostly on his freak of athletic skills combined with a few years of MMA training. He's still no complete fighter, he's still yet to show dirty boxing, which could get him in trouble and lose him his belt if he doesn't/hasn't learned. Still hasn't been tagged by a crisp boxer.

Jones has been destructive from the get go as well based upon his pre-MMA dominance, but he just hasn't had a shot yet to fight the LHW top 5ers to dominate as Brock immediately did - probably because of youth and star power. By the end of 2011, the UFC will have likely have no choice but to give him a title shot, and he's probably going to hold it for a long time. I would put odds in his favor of taking down and imposing will on anyone at LHW, including Lyoto, Rashad and Rua. The only guy I think odds are would beat Jones right now at age 22 is Anderson, if he ever gets that opportunity.

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Old 06-04-2010, 07:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I stopped reading after "behind Anderson"

Maybe you meant behind Anderson for P4P dancer.
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Bones doesn't have any credible wins yet. His stature is not too impressive either. He may be skilled, but theres nothing about him that could be called freak of nature.

Brock however is a huge hulking human being with the agility and movement of someone half his size. Is he the best HW? Not yet. Is he great at MMA? Not yet. But as an athlete, hes the sickest thing the UFC has seen.
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I've never seen an athlete control his opponent the way that Brock has. It's like he's holding an insect rather than a 205+ lb. man down. His freakish strength, unusually long reach, huge hands and wrestling knowledge in combination are unparalleled in the sport.

Add to that his frightening speed, leaping ability, and sociopathic inability to empathize with his opponents and you get a frightening combination of attributes which usually spells disaster for his opponents.

He also has one punch KO power, although he doesn't trust his hands, and may never will (lack of practice in actual fights due to his reliance on his overwhelming wrestling).

As far as Bones, he's the future champ. That's it.
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Old 06-04-2010, 08:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Terror Kovenant View Post
Bones doesn't have any credible wins yet. His stature is not too impressive either. He may be skilled, but theres nothing about him that could be called freak of nature.

Brock however is a huge hulking human being with the agility and movement of someone half his size. Is he the best HW? Not yet. Is he great at MMA? Not yet. But as an athlete, hes the sickest thing the UFC has seen.
No credible wins - OK, but he rag dolled and pounded the last two fighters he's faced - Vera and Hamill like they've never been before, both decent fighters. I don't think there are too many or any guys sitting at the top of the LHWs group sitting down with Joe Silva saying I want Jon Jones. 84 inch reach, arguably the strongest LHW, 6'4", quick movements - dominating fighter - that's freakish. If you put him on PPV he's be a solid co main-event against anyone, or main event if he had a shot at a top 5. His next fight a tv headliner atleast.

I thought the freakishness was pretty even. I haven't seen anyone do the things Jon Jones is doing to the opponents he's faced - UFC matchmakers know it, people that have watched him fight know this guy has a future of getting a title shot in the next two years, and many (like me) believe he's got tools to beat anyone in LHW right now, he'll keep dominating, getting better, win the LHW belt and stop the merry-go-round of LHWs.

Not saying Brock isn't a freak of nature ... as well, just the heavy Brock bias..

We can just end this thread.

***

This was supposed OBJECTIVE thread (hence my name) a little bit of oranges to tangerines questions between who's more relatively freakish to their division.

I was expecting more like:

Oooooo Brock's so big and athletic, he moves like like he's 100 pounds lighter, he blows guys away and is a 300 pound guy throwing flying knees.

But dude, has anyone ever shown the dominance and brute strength to rag doll Hammill or Vera, using Judo throws in the clinch, proper slams, combined with speed and striking. He's the future and he's only 22, he gets better every fight. When's the last time you saw a LHW GnP a guy with pummeling blows.

Nooo way Brock is sooo quick for size, he's one of a kind, he's going to negate Carwin's punching precision with his range, and superior wrestling and quickness.

Can Bones due that kind of thing to a Machida or Rampage? He's soooo unproven, you can't make judgements regardless of the dominance he's shown, Vera and Hammill are cans - he's skills will only be relevant when he faces a top 5 LHW.

Nooooo homey, I think the real freak is Carwin, his hands are so big and all first round KO/TKOs. He'll push Brock to the cage and hammer away at him with dirty boxing and knees.

You're crazy, Brock will take him down 5 seconds in to the fight, exhaust and GnP him.

Why are we even mentioning Carwin, he's not part of OP.

Bones could develop use his longest arm length range to negate Machida's backing up. And he could take down Rua, if Machida can do it, why wouldn't Bones be able to. And Rashad is athletic but he can't control people's arms and GnP once on the ground.

ahhhhhhhh

Whatever, my feelings are hurt, i'm never starting a thread again.

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Old 06-04-2010, 09:09 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I dont know why you even continue to post things, you obviously dont take crtisism against your own view of opinions well.

The problem is that you named this thread wrong, If you ask who is the bigger "freak of nature", I dont care what examples you give for Bones Jones, The answer is simple. Brock Lesnar.

A freak of nature isnt consisteded of throwing guys around like you make it out to be, Those are all skill sets and techniques. You keep bring it up and up on how Jones throws guys around and how he has this brute strength. I ask again, Are Hamil and Vera known for their strength? NOPE!

Until he fights a fighter like Rampage, You cant say he has this amazing strength, Until he fights Rashad or Machida, You cant say he has the best speed in the LHW division. I just dont think you really know how the term " freak of nature" is used, it isnt just thrown around for the heck of it.

This has also been said NUMEROUS times in this thread, Bones Jones hasnt faced a top 10 fighter yet, and yet you keep bringing up his techniques and skill sets against average fighters.

*edit* Let me just make a example for you of how you are using the term freak of nature wrong. Lets take GSP for example, even though you cant compare Jones to GSP yet. By your defintion, GSP should be a top listed "freak of nature", He takes down opponents at his will, opponents who are sometimes bigger and stronger then him, he takes them down fairly easily, makes them look childish sometimes. Does that mean he is a freak of nature? NOPE!

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