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Lesnar’s Win Opens Up A Whole New Heavyweight Debate

3K views 33 replies 18 participants last post by  El Bresko 
#1 ·
#2 ·
Interesting comment by Thomson saying Lashley couldn't take Cain down.

As for the Brock not liking to get hit. Meh. Who hasn't seen that with their own eyes? Until somebody takes the big baboon out it dont mean shit. Getting comfortable with being hit is what amateur careers are for. Brock didn't have one. I cant believe he doesn't get some credit for this. Hes got the belt and is in for some evil fights. Scary fights. He going into the cage with these animals knowing full well what being hit hard feels like even though it clearly terrifies him. That makes him brave if you ask me... I dont enjoy saying that.
 
#3 ·
Its pretty sick that he holds the HW belt and has defended it twice with only 6 MMA fights. And he definately knows what it feels like to get hit now, he survived shots that would put most people away. I can't help being impressed with the way he's evolved as a fighter in such a short time. Mir submitted him in his UFC debut, in the rematch he completely neutralized him on the ground. In the Carwin fight he was absolutely dominated in the 1st, but he survived and actually won by arm triangle choke. I was completely blown away by that. Granted, Carwin was gassed by that time, but it shows that he's actually learning all aspects of MMA and is willing to use the tools that are available. Lol, the thought of Brock slapping on armbars and rear naked chokes is scary. He's far from being a complete MMA fighter, but if he's this good already who knows how far he can go?
 
#5 ·
Can we take a quick poll on who likes getting hit....by Shane Carwin non the less. I agree that he really doesn't like being hit but I think part of him kind of was looking to avoid that 1 punch that has put so many to sleep. I mean honestly Brock probably has no idea how strong his chin is and trying to test it agains Carwin is insane. Also he did take some shots on the ground but I hope he doesn't start thinking that he can take those kind of shots on the feet, its different physics involved with that.
 
#10 ·
only one way to find out...


sign Bobby Lashley. :thumbsup:

Dana talked all this condescending sh!t about the UFC not being "interested" in Bobby Lashley...but he signed people like Denis Stojnic and Josh Hendricks (both of whom crashed and burned).

Lets make it happen
 
#23 ·
I'd rather have Fedor instead of guy without a descent HW win on his record.

I give Brock a ton of props for being resilient and finishing an undefeated Shane Carwin. Having said that, his striking flaws were further exposed and i think Alistair Overeem would definitely beat him.
That's assuming that Overeem doesn't get taken down immediately and pounded out. Overeem has never beaten a good wrestler, let alone a great one.

He couldn't outwrestle Carwin and Randy! I doupt he can handle Cain Volcom.
He did out wrestle Carwin. He took him down twice. Once was in the first round by the way. The other times he didn't get the takedown he was rocked. He completely outwrestled Couture.
 
#17 ·
He took Carwin down after he was already out on his feet in the second round. Carwin stuffed all Takedowns in the first pretty easily. And yea he had a very tough time with Randy as well. Yes he got him down, but now he faces Cain.. not a 47 years old!
 
#18 ·
Those are good points. But Brock vs Randy wasn't so much wrestling set vs wrestling set. It was Brock's American wrestling vs Randy's mastered Greco Roman, so it wasn't quite a 1 to 1 wrestling talent comparison, but that's a mute point at this stage.

I think Cain is technically a better wrestler then Brock and an argument for the size difference is that Cain has competed against Brock sized wrestlers in college. However, when you mix in the ability to pound someone's face, it becomes a new realm of competition (like BJJ tournament winners who move to MMA, BJJ efficacy doesn't always transfer at a 1 to 1 ratio from BJJ to MMA). Having wrestled guys Brock's size isn't comparable to having fought guys Brock's size.

I certainly don't count Cain out, he's a scary mix of striking and wrestling, but my bias is definitely toward Brock winning by some form of top control outcome. Brock may have the most unstoppable TD's once it's sunk in, but he's not really the quickest shooter, at least not from an upright, MMA stance. He can shoot quickly from a wrestling, T-Rex posture, but apart from taking an official wrestling stance, I think Cain could out sprawl Brock MOST of the time. However, I don't think Cain could avoid Brock 100% of the time and Brock only needs to obtain top control once to put Cain in a bad place.

That said, I do believe Cain puts Brock in a bad place on the feet at all times, but I'm definitely more worried about Cain's superior striking.

Either way, there aren't any easy fights in the top HW division. Brock is my boy 100%, but I acknowledge the threat in Cain, JDS and then perhaps a Carwin rematch.

I think it's a long hard road for any HW at this current time.
 
#19 ·
Absolutely the worst observations and article I have read in quite a while. This is just trash from the get/go.

Even boxing writers learned that covering up and allowing a guy to blow himself out is good strategy after the "Rumble in the Jungle"

I really can't stand this Brock hating. He got tagged, covered and Carwin spit the bit.

Terrified? The writer should be terrified that someone will realize what a douche he is and fire him.
 
#21 ·
I think Cain and JDS' best chances are to simply out work Brock on the feet and wear him down. Cain could probably out sprawl Brock all day if he remains fresh. As much as I think Brock has the most unstoppable TD in all of MMA, his TD's are also kind of projected and slow, so avoiding them "in time" might not be too much of a challenge for Cain. Brock needs to sink the TD in pretty deep before it becomes a black hole, point horizon. I still see Brock winning, but I think Cain posses a greater challenge then most people want to give him credit for.

War Brock.
 
#22 ·
Too many debates about Lesnar imo.
Too many people were talking crap about him before this fight, but now he needs to be given the credit he deserves. Maybe he is not the best fighter in the world. He might not be the best wrestler in world. He definitely isn't the best striker in the world. In fact his standup is horrible.

But against Carwin he proved he is a tough tough mother f****r!!! He survived those huge bombs and came back andd won. And now he is in for the next challenger.
I am not a Brock nuthugger, but i respect his achievemnts in MMA so far.
The things he has achieved are unique in this sport and he needs to be respected for that.
 
#26 ·
i did overeem wikipedia and saw that he has losses against shogun and liddell and others and NO good wins against any1 really, no cro cop, no NOG, no JDS, no cain, no fedor etc you get my point.
i can understand why fedor gets his good rep, he has beaten a few good people, but overeem is majorly hyped but hasnt beaten any1 special let alone legend status
 
#29 · (Edited)
I would be surprised if Brock was able to take Carwin down with ease, they're both excellent wrestlers so it doesn't really worry me that he was unable to do so in the first round. The first shot Lesnar had he got clipped rushing in and still got him down, though Carwin was right back up. His 2nd attempt came after Carwin had pounded on him for 2 min, it was more Brock trying to recover pushing Carwin against the fence than a real takedown attempt. In the 2nd round he got him down, and we all know what happened then. He's probably going to struggle with Cain as well, but I really think he'll get him down eventually. He might be stuffed a couple of times, but I don't think Cain can defend the takedown for 5 rounds and once it hits the ground with Brock on top its gonna get ugly. I think Cain's best chance is to defend the takedown and use a lot of movement to outpoint Brock. Cain is going to have a speed advantage which he really needs to use effectively to win. Brock also doesn't have to worry about the power as much as in the Carwin fight. Its going to be an interesting fight, I look forward to it.
 
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