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Old 01-23-2007, 03:27 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Karo's Judo useful against the elite?

I was watching the Diego v. Karo fight again today and noticed that after every Judo throw Diego took the dominant position. I love Karo's Judo but me cheering "SICK!" at my TV doesn't win fights. I am sure Diego's head and neck were soar the next day...but the fight was over then.

Drew Fickett is by no means "elite" and we didn't see any Judo there. It makes for sick highlites, I don't want it to go away at all but after the Diego fight I have to question if it is useful against the best. Your thoughts?
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Old 01-23-2007, 10:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
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His Judo is very good against the top fighters, sometimes it is the only way to get some fighters down. The fight with Diego just shows how good Diego's BJJ is. Because he was able to use his hips to turn Karo while in the air. Not every fighter can do that and the next time Karo fights a good BJJ fighter he will take that into account. The fickett fight is a different fight and he had a different fight plan, you can't really compare them both, Karo believed he was a better striker and didn't need to take it to the ground and he won, so I guess his plan was right. But his Judo is still important and will work against many many fighters, he just needs to evolve it some more.
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Old 01-23-2007, 11:25 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Actually, Diego even said after the fight that it hurt when Karo threw him on his head. So Diego even acknowledged the throws so when that happens it means they did something.

Also even if there not effective as a consistent tool it is always nice to have it if your in a jam.
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Old 01-23-2007, 12:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It helps, because it means Karo doesn't always have to shoot in for a takedown. In the Diego fight, Karo did what he could(Keep in mind he took a nasty punch to the eye in the beginning) while seeing with one eye. Diego is just an animal, and when someone is that dangerous(And has unbelievable cardio), then it makes it hard to control him.

I actually think Karo took Fickett easy until Fickett cut him. Karo suddenly went from patient, to relentless in seconds.
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Old 01-23-2007, 03:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It provides for cool takedowns, but it has actually gotten Karo into trouble. In the Serra fight, Karo tries a throw that actually gives Serra the better position (In fact, I haven't seen it in awhile but I think that he does that twice). In the Lytle fight, he uses and arm throw (Don't know the name... Seionage or something) that had him drop to his knees and show Lytle his back. Now, it worked, but if Lytle was more comfortable in those situations, he could have dropped his hooks in and tried for a choke.

Against St. Pierre, Karo takes GSP down only to realize: "Damn, GSP is a beast." From that point on, GSP's incredible strength overpowered Karo on the ground. And again as mentioned with Diego, there were a few times that Diego got taken to the ground and Karo gave up a dominant position.

All that said, I think Judo is an excellent alternative from the takedown norms (Your standard shoot to double leg takedowns and leg sweeps). Part of what makes Karo so friggin' exciting is that when he wants to go to the ground, it's going there. But like everything in MMA, Judo isn't the end all be all. You have to learn as much as possible so that you have a full arsenal.
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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That's one of the main reasons why I dig Karo a lot. He's a risk taker. If he can go for a nice throw, then he'll do it. Consequences be damned(Though Karo is good enough to get out of bad positions). He didn't really worry about Matt Serra's ground game(Though he did catch a nice wild punch to the chin), and focused on putting on a show for the crowd. UFC 53 is an overlooked show. I am glad that he showed cleaner striking against Fickett, because Karo's past standup was really ugly looking.
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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If and When Koscheck and Karo fight I"m really interested in seeing there 2 different styles. Koscheck wrestling ablity is at the top of those competing in MMA and I doubt he'd stand and strike with Karo. On the ground it will be interesting to see how things work out among them both. It could be a great fight. At the very least the styles would be interesting.
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Damone
That's one of the main reasons why I dig Karo a lot. He's a risk taker. If he can go for a nice throw, then he'll do it. Consequences be damned(Though Karo is good enough to get out of bad positions). He didn't really worry about Matt Serra's ground game(Though he did catch a nice wild punch to the chin), and focused on putting on a show for the crowd. UFC 53 is an overlooked show. I am glad that he showed cleaner striking against Fickett, because Karo's past standup was really ugly looking.
I agree completely and it is why I love Karo as well. The guy does not quit advancing. He is a badass and I think he has the tools to become champion. Again, I hope the judo throws stay a part of his arsenal but I still have to say that I don't see them being effective against Diego, GSP, and Matt Hughes. I see them being very effective against Kos (inexperience). I just don't see Kos having a chance against Karo. I like Kos....maybe one day but not in 2007.
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Old 01-23-2007, 06:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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If Kos & Karo do happen to fight, then I'd be picking Karo as well. Koscheck will be a huge force in 2009, but now, he's just improving to that certain stage. Koscheck has all the potential in the world, but I really think Karo will have his number. I do think Koscheck will put up a good fight(Which he always does), but Karo will take it.
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It would be a good test for Koscheck to see where he stands. His wrestling is superior to almost anybody in MMA. It could be a very interesting bout.
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