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JDS or Carwin - who causes more problems for Cain?

6K views 90 replies 39 participants last post by  mastodon2222 
#1 ·
JDS possesses excellent Boxing and good TDD but i see Cain taking that fight, however Carwin has unparalleled power and i can see him KOing Cain in the 1st, thoughts about these fights?
 
#3 ·
Answer to the Q - JDS

Carwin has the punchers chance and will be exhausted in the half of 1st round from the pace Cain bring.

JDS cause a lot more problems - great boxing with power, good TDD and good scrambles. Anyhow he will start to fade late in 2nd round. If he doesnt finish the fight before 3rd round. Cain will destroy him after that.
 
#4 ·
Junior.

Carwin probably has the better Boxing out of the two, and also can utilize his Wrestling pedigree, but if he gets put on his back, it won't end very well for Shane. Whereas Junior has elite striking, but also has his BJJ background, and he can also Scramble and has decent Takedown defense. There is also the Stamina problems with Carwin, and although JSD hasn't really went very far in his fights, his only decision victory against Nelson, he looks like he has a bigger gas tank than Shane Carwin.
 
#6 ·
JDS.

In the Carwin fight all Cain would have to do is stay safe for 1 or 2 rounds (even if he loses both by not engaging) Carwin will eventually gas and Cain could tko him late or win an easy UD.

JDS has the edge on the feet vs Cain but as guys have said Cain will just take him down and GnP him.
 
#7 ·
Probably Junior Dos Santos.

I'd trade much more skilled, diverse striking + a ground game, for some girth and power.

There's a chance Cain would get caught by something Carwin throws and get knocked out or dazed, but there's a higher chance he would get out struck continually by JDS.

If you watch the Lesnar fight again, it isn't like Lesnar doesn't connect with some shots.

I don't doubt Cain could take both of them down, with some difficulty. Their difference in wrestling is negligible for me.

They're both dangerous opponents for Velasquez, but I give Cain the edge against both of them.
 
#8 · (Edited)
At first thought i was thinking Carwin, only for the fact that if Carwin connects, you are probably going to sleep. JDS on the other hand has more technically sound hands but not as worried about him getting a KO on Cain. Carwin has 1 round to knock Cain clean out and if he doesnt manage his chances of winning are cut in half each round and Cain could probably take Carwin down 75% of the time which is plenty when you are as quick,persistent and well conditioned as Cain is. JDS on the other hand is more likely to land good shots on Cain but i dont see him having that 1 hit KO power that it will take to stop Cain. Lets say JDS does land a good hit on Cain and rocks him, Cain will just get the takedown while rocked and recover there. After the second round of Cain holding his own standing by being ALOT more versatile in his strikes and being able to figure out JDS simple and predictable combos, Cain will shoot. When JDS starts forgetting about the TD because he is so worried about not being knocked out himself, Cain shoots in and puts a beating on JDS. After 2 rounds pass the fight starts being more and more 1 sided with Cain getting either a UD or a late 3rd round TKO. Carwin on the other hand stops being a threat after the first round which will be mostly Cain putting a beating on him like he did Ben Rothwell except that Carwin will be a bit harder to keep down BUT every time he starts getting up Cain will be a step ahead of him to take his legs right under him again.

I do want people to read this at-least if not the whole post.

JDS does not have a advantage in the striking department. JDS looked good against Roy nelson but also showed alot of holes in his striking. One of the most important holes i saw was how simple JDS striking is. JDS has good timing and the punches he throws he throws them great. BUT thats where the compliments stop and where the problems start. He is not versatile in his striking one bit. He thows the same combo over and over again and seems very content in doing so. He isnt a complete striker like Cain is and it will be his kryptonite when he fights Cain. JDS hardly mixes his strikes up by throwing in some kicks or knees. His knees in the clinch arnt nearly as good as Cains are. JDS Boxing is great but after watching him fight for 1 round you pretty much see all he is going to throw. His defense also seems to be lacking when he is throwing his hands. It wouldnt be long before Cain figures out Dos Santos combos and starts timing them and throwing the perfect strikes in the right situations. he will overwhelm him by throwing different combos and adding head kicks and low kicks in there. He will then switch it up by putting JDS in the Muay Thai Clinch and quickly separating while throwing a quick combo. I dont think see JDS being able to handle a complete striker MUCH less when he is worried about being taken down at will.


I know alot of people wont agree since JDS boxing seems to have a fan worship of its own BUT quote me that when the fight happens the striking game is going to be closer then you think and with Cains take downs it will be a 1 sided fight.
 
#18 ·
As far as striking goes, JDS is on another level than Cain. I mean come on did you miss the Kongo fight? And it's not like Lesnar didn't land. Cain does like to mix things up a lot but he still has to land. Also, Junior is the quicker of the two when it comes to throwing and moving in and out. I think thats a huge factor. About the Nelson fight, Nelson looked like he came in to the fight not wanting to get knocked out. The guy had his hands up covering his face the whole time, I mean come on how do you expect to knock someone out like that. He didnt go there to win, he went there to not get knocked out.
But I dont think much of the fight is going to be standup. Im pretty sure Cain's camp is going to give him a strict gameplan of taking him down and keeping him there. They're going to tell him not to strike with him. That's where Junior's ground game will have to show. In the UFC, we havent seen much of his ground game. But I do know he has won a few jiu jitsu titles in Brazil. And he has good hips to get back up. We'll have to see how it all pans out come fight night.

As for the OP's question, JDS causes more problems simply because Cain is capable of taking both man down at any time but what will Carwin do off of his back besides gassing out? Cain would dominate Carwin on the ground.
 
#10 ·
It doesn't work that way. We saw what a Fresh Carwin did to a Fresh Brock. He beat him just as bad as Cain beat him except this ref felt like stopping it while Carwins fight the Ref did not.

Not saying that Cain wont dominate Carwin, BUT the first round atleast, will hardly be Brock-Cain dejavu. Second round maybe..
 
#11 ·
Carwin fan here. I think they both present different problems for Cain but are both beatable by Cain, I think Carwin has a better chance of beating Cain. I agree with the previous poster "Sideways" on JDS's boxing and I don't think JDS can knock Cain out. I think Cain needs to turn it into a wrestling match then ground and pound. Cain wins.

I HOPE Carwin wins. I'd like to see Carwin OBVIOUSLY work on his gas tank. I think Shane should work on controlling Cain in the clinch and dirty box like he did with MIR. Do his best to draw Cain in and be patient for a knock out blow. Carwin can take a punch and won't cower like Lesnar. I think when they mix it up while striking it will be exciting.
I think Cain needs to stay outside, when he does strike come in and use his speed, then get back out. Just like with Brock if there's a takedown there take it but don't push the issue. Shuck him off in the clinch and get out. Get out of the first round and take Shane deep in other rounds.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Brock and Carwin are very similar, they are both two versions of the same man, one is good on the feet the other is good on the ground, neither are well rounded.

As always, the fight starts on the feet, so Carwin has a better chance than Brock straight away. Essentially though, I would expect Cain to beat Carwin as bad as he beat Brock, maybe not in the first round though, and with the exception of an out of nowhere Carwin KO. Also, Carwin can hold Cain against the fence for a while like Brock did, except he will be throwing bombs, I wonder how Cain would deal with this.

JDS I think has every chance of beating Cain, he's taller, longer, fast hands and fast footwork, and has GENUINE KO power. He finds gaps and capitalizes to the max with great angles. Even Brock was landing jabs on Cain, mainly because of the reach advantage.

JDS isn't fazed by more prolific kickers, he can use his feet too he just loves to box. His ground game is still a bit of a mystery but I think Gonzaga got him down, and JDS flew back up with ease. He has a great gas tank too especially for his height, so he's the only one who can keep up with Cain for 3 rounds at least.

JDS poses the most problems IMO, he knows he can knock Cain out, and he's known for a while he'd be facing a wrestler, whether Brock or Cain won, so he'll be prepared for that and I'd like to see his Jiu jitsu.
 
#14 ·
I disagree with most of this post. I wish this fight could happen tomorrow just to see who is more correct with their assessment of both their skills.
Going with this idea that now Cain is champ, well rounded skills and good cardio are essential, I think JDS fits this criteria better than Carwin. You can never rule Carwin out but I think JDS is better equipped for fighting Cain.
 
#16 ·
We don't know how good JDS is at BJJ right now but he has been training with good guys in it for a while now so he should be competent and have put the reps in on some go to submissions. So even if Cain takes him down fairly easily I don't think it is a lock he wins. Remember Cain really hasn't had to show any kind of BJJ defense in his career yet he might be Chael bad at defending submissions.
This, Cigano is under Nogueira and Anderson Silva for Jiu Jitsu, and come fight time, he'll also be the best striker Cain has fought.
 
#17 ·
I think Carwin is the more dangerous for Cain out of the two. It doesnt matter who you are, if Carwin connects with your chin, then its lights out, period. Having said that i still take Cain to beat Carwin, there is the obvious cardio issue with Shane, but he does have a punchers chance.

I just don't see JDS as that much of a threat to Cain on current form. I'm not dismissing him out of hand, but everything JDS does, Cain does better. Its true that we have not seen Cain really defending off his back yet, but imo Cain takes it. Man is the heavyweight division exciting right now, i can't wait to see what happens next.
 
#21 ·
Carwin is the most over rated fighter in MMA today, its ridiculous. Terrible boxing technique, slow, ageing and a terrible gas tank. I honestly dont expect him to get past Roy Nelson (serious). If all goes to plan,he loses to Nelson, then gets Rothwell, loses again and retires. Hell, i would pick Brendan Schaub to beat Carwin. I know they train together and all, but a what if scenario, yes, schaub all day. The sooner these freak shows are gone from the sport, the better.
 
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#22 ·
For those who said that Brock and Carwin were pretty much the same (2 big guys, no technique, not well rounded, one ok standing, the other ok on the ground) I would say that there is at least 1 big difference:

They don't react the same way AT ALL when getting hit in the face...

As for the thread itself, I do see JDS being better standing technically. I don't know how good his TDD will be against Cain. I don't know how good his BJJ is off his back.

Carwin has more power in his hands, and somewhat good wrestling. I don't know how good his TDD will be against Cain. I'm pretty sure his BJJ is poor off his back.
 
#23 ·
i'm a carwin fan, that being said, i think cardio would play the difference. I think his TDD and striking would win him the fight in the 1st round, or maybe in the 2nd, however seeing his camp he probably has a big a gas tank as his body can be fitted with, and if cain takes it past round 2 he's done.

maybe if he trained full time carwin would be able to get out 3 good rounds:confused02:

JDS could go the distance but would be UD'ed or TKO'ed if persistant TD's come into play (he has good TDD, but i think he'd go down eventually), and i'm sure they will as cain probably won't want to stand with him too long.

all in all, I think carwin gives cain more trouble if only ofr 1-2 rounds.

I think a match with either man could go either way tbh
 
#24 ·
For those who said that Brock and Carwin were pretty much the same (2 big guys, no technique, not well rounded, one ok standing, the other ok on the ground) I would say that there is at least 1 big difference:

They don't react the same way AT ALL when getting hit in the face...
Yeah you're right there I forgot that difference, and that one thing alone is a huge decider in who's more likely to win in a fight. Everyone will put the pressure on Lesnar from now on and he will lose every single fight if he carries on reacting to strikes like that.

I wouldn't go as far as what Mckeever wrote but sometimes you do wonder if Carwin relies on heavy hands and the confidence to box with anyone, and he is ageing. But rewatch some of his fights and he keeps the fight where he wants it, controls his opponents, can be quick and strong on the ground (little we've seen), punches absolutely on the button and just generally decimates everyone. And he can take a punch.

JDS has the edge technically though, has much better cardio, and has 10 years on Carwin, it would be something special if Cain defends the title against both these guys.
 
#25 ·
After the way Cain utterly dismantled my boy Brock, Cain seems to have that same aura of invincibilty Lyoto had (pre-Shogun) to me and although I see Carwin and JDS both having their potential threats, Cain is just more well rounded then both of them. However, if I had to pick, I'd pick Carwin if he's learned to control his energy exertion and becomes more self controlled.

I don't know that Brock will ever "learn how to take a punch," because he got in the game so late. Technical skill-set wise, he can still improve in folds, but how you react to getting hit in the face is either inherent or callused over time & experience. Apparently, Brock needs to take the latter road and that's not a short road.
 
#26 ·
JDS is the only man I see in the HW division being anything more than a minute threat to Cain's belt. Carwin would get gassed and destroyed by Cain's pace. Cain could also outbox him as Carwin is incredibly slow and tends to throw loops. JDS, on the other hand, is a very, very fast technical striker. A very well rounded striker at that. Has great TDD and has the power to put almost anyone out cold. Cain seems to have a "Fitch-y" chin in that he can get blasted, be out on his way to the floor and then spring right back up before he hits it though... which is weird, is that an AKA thing? I digress. That Chin would help him against Dos for a while but I'm not sure how long it would hold out. The only person to really test his chin is Kongo and from looks of their opponents, JDS hits much, much harder than Kongo.
 
#28 ·
If its kept standing up JDS would ko Cain, but Cain isn't stupid. His boxing isn't nearly on the level of JDS neither is Carwin. Cain would take JDS down and quite frankly we haven't seen JDS sprawl on an actual high level wrestler and taht might be his problem.Carwin can ko cain but he's just pure power, Cain can out box him but one punch can end the fight with Carwin
 
#29 ·
I think JDS would give him more of a challenge.

They both possess almost perfect technique and while Can has great takedown ability, JDS has great sprawling ability. I give Velasquez the advantage in that while they're both very technical strikers, JDS' striking style is less versatile than Velasquez's.

Carwin has a power advantage however he possesses inferior technique. Velasquez has a comparable wrestling ability, and a much bigger gas tank, as well as much more of a pacing ability. In this case I also give Velasquez the advantage.
 
#31 ·
Carwin was easily taken down and mounted by Gonzaga and Lesnar, and Mir stuffed his takedown. His wrestling is greatly exaggerated.


Cain was also taken down by Kongo. JDS has never been taken down in the UFC and he took Nelson down.


It's ridiculous to assume Cain will take down or keep down Dos Santos.

Cain wasn't picking Lesnar apart on the feet either. It was Cains composure, not skill, that had him winning the standup.
 
#32 ·
Its ridiculous to assume that one of the most impressive wrestling i have seen in MMA will take down someone like JDS?? Black House is hardly known for their great TDD. Cain is getting the fight to the ground and pretty easy at that. Dont fool yourself... you will just be more disappointed when JDS spends the majority of time on the floor.
 
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