Greg Jackson Fires Back at Dana White Over Recent Criticism - Page 2 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:32 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
In the Hardy fight he told GSP between rounds to "Only pass when there is 30 seconds left in the roung".

It was disturbing.
Loads of fighters will use this strategy. I recall Tito saying after the 2nd Forrest fight that he shouldn't have tried to pass because it allowed forrest to explode and escape.

It is just a good strategy within the current scoring system. In BJJ you get points for passing and securing the position. In MMA the only thing that seems to count when it comes to winning rounds is time spent on top, in guard, side control whatever.

With the gi on it is much easier to secure side control and prevent the explosive escape as you have control points. No gi it is really hard.

The reality is it is silly to risk passing quickly after a takedown as if they escape and stand, you are just giving points away.

You cannot criticise Greg Jackson for making decisions that result in victory, that is his job.

The blame here lies within the way rounds are scored. Same old, same old I know.

If the scoring rewarded aggressive top game jiu-jitsu more, then perhaps fighters (wrestlers especially) wouldn't be content to sit in the guard, being defensive and doing nothing. Fighters also need to start being much more aggressive off their backs so that people do not want to sit in their guard.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:38 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Brydon View Post
Loads of fighters will use this strategy. I recall Tito saying after the 2nd Forrest fight that he shouldn't have tried to pass because it allowed forrest to explode and escape.

It is just a good strategy within the current scoring system. In BJJ you get points for passing and securing the position. In MMA the only thing that seems to count when it comes to winning rounds is time spent on top, in guard, side control whatever.

With the gi on it is much easier to secure side control and prevent the explosive escape as you have control points. No gi it is really hard.

The reality is it is silly to risk passing quickly after a takedown as if they escape and stand, you are just giving points away.

You cannot criticise Greg Jackson for making decisions that result in victory, that is his job.

The blame here lies within the way rounds are scored. Same old, same old I know.

If the scoring rewarded aggressive top game jiu-jitsu more, then perhaps fighters (wrestlers especially) wouldn't be content to sit in the guard, being defensive and doing nothing. Fighters also need to start being much more aggressive off their backs so that people do not want to sit in their guard.
Its all about finishing the round in dominant position. Its an old trick in combat sports and it plays on the judges. How you finish a round carries far more weight compared to how you start. In boxing, waiting till the last 30 seconds before finishing strongly is a very common tactic.

Its bollocks really, but understandable.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:28 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
In the Hardy fight he told GSP between rounds to "Only pass when there is 30 seconds left in the roung".

It was disturbing.
Disturbing?? That is hardly disturbing. If you are disturbed by something like that then i wonder what you would be if you saw someone break their bones out of their skin or something. You would probably end up in a mental hospital terrified.

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Originally Posted by Hammerlock2.0 View Post
Now... let's just forget everything except for main events because that's what pisses Dana off.

First he gets the Rashad/Silva fight as a main event at UFC 108, then he gets Rashad/Rampage at UFC 114, then at UFC 122 he gets Okami/Marquardt. I bet I could find some more if I cared to look them up. Then add some more frustration because of UFC 97, UFC 112 and UFC 119.
Yeah i mean.. Dana definitely has something to be pissed about. I kinda feel that gregs fighters when they are not the main event or co main event, they do awesome. But when the pressure is on then they play it safe and fight to not lose instead of fighting to win. I can see Dana being upset when he is forced to put Gregs fighters on the main event and hyping the fight up just to get a 3 or 5 round **** fest. I dont think Dana would give a damn if Gregs fighters could make the main events exciting but regular fights **** fests. It can make the UFC look stupid when you are advertising this HUGE exciting fight!! Both fighters looking to get a finish!! People are jumping out of their seat during the entrance and then it turns out that the most excited you got was during the entrance.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hammerlock2.0 View Post
Now... let's just forget everything except for main events because that's what pisses Dana off.

First he gets the Rashad/Silva fight as a main event at UFC 108, then he gets Rashad/Rampage at UFC 114, then at UFC 122 he gets Okami/Marquardt. I bet I could find some more if I cared to look them up. Then add some more frustration because of UFC 97, UFC 112 and UFC 119.
Pretty much this. The bad main events are what Dana remembers the most and the Jackson camp has had quite a few boring main events.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Basically when people, including Dana, talk about "Greg Jackson fighters" what they are really talking about is GSP and Rashad Evans.
Anybody with a brain knows that Greg Jackson doesnt tell his fighters to be boring, that his fighters are indeed NOT boring (as evidenced by the OP), and that GSP is most certainly NOT a lay and pray fighter (nor has he become "Afraid" to stand up because of Matt ******* Serra).
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm not persuaded by Greg's stats because I don't know the stats of other similar sized camps.

Even if they do get awards regularly in comparison to others, when it's not going their way or they're not confident that it will/lot of pressure, the tactics are questionable and more often than not, it leads to pretty shit fights.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The job of a coach is to try and secure a strategy for victory, and to guide his or her athlete into becomeing a batter athlete. It isn't the job of a coach to make his team, or his athlete exciting, it's about results.
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Old 12-01-2010, 05:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ari View Post
The job of a coach is to try and secure a strategy for victory, and to guide his or her athlete into becomeing a batter athlete. It isn't the job of a coach to make his team, or his athlete exciting, it's about results.
So true.

Another reason why Dana is taking shots at Jackson is the fact he has so many great fighters in the same division.
He doesn't wanna have another Koscheck-Fitch situation on his hands: two team-mates that won't fight eachother.
That's why he was applauding Carlos Condit so enthusiasticly at the press conference after he beat Hardy.
Condit said he would be interested in a potential fight with GSP, but seeing how both are part of Jackson camp...it would be an akward situation and they would have to see how it would go down.
Plus, there is Diego Sanchez in the WW division, another member of Jackson camp.
He has Stevenson, Guida and next it will be Cerrone also in the LW division. (although Guida faced Florian a Tristar member)
Jon Jones and Rashad - top contenders in the LHW division.

I think Dana is more pissed about this, than Jackson's fighters putting on not so exciting fights from time to time.

Jackson camp keeps growing and attracting a lot of great fighters.

He is affraid about losing a lot of potential fights, because of fighters being team-mates. And fans want to see these fights. He is the big boss and if he can't put togheter those, he's losing "points".
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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well to me it always seems like the higher the fighter is in the rankings the safer he fights

that would explain why most of the bonuses come from the guys coming up the ranks, they just keep doing what they are doing, but once they get to that main event level the jackson camp does seem to creat safe fight gameplans IMO

i think its just a matter of time until JBJ fights safe, probably after a big loss
That and you can rarely achieve the same moves on a top level fighter, that you can achieve against a poor fighter. It's why it's so incredible when you see guys tooling with other top level fighters.

Oh and Jackson needs basic logic + math, 22*3 = 66. So his fighters have 12 out of 66 bonus awards.
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Old 12-02-2010, 01:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
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If you look at things from Dana's eyes, there's a difference between winning and performing.

He needs his fighters to perform so people buy the events. Some people tune in for the headliners only, so if the headliners are always going to decisions and the fighters aren't taking risks... Dana is going to get pissy.

Now if you look at things from a Coaches point of view. It's all about winning no matter what happens.

Asides from maybe Jon Jones and Carlos Condoit, the reality is, we are starting to expect Greg Jackson fighters to go for 3 rounds and not take any risks. They are trained to win, not necessarily to perform.
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