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Old 12-17-2010, 10:59 AM   #11 (permalink)
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the americans didnt accept him because he was asian, the chinese didnt accept him because he wasnt %100 chinese. and thats a fact.
But we all accepted him where it matters, our hearts.
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Old 12-17-2010, 12:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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every major country has little countries running around looking for autonomy.
Hong Kong wasn't looking for autonomy from China, it was annected by the British Empire in mid-19th century and thus became a crown colony which in the end had a huge cultural impact.

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not classifying hong kong as chinese is completely pointless.
No it's not. It depends on what you want to point out. The majority of people in Hong Kong are of ethnic Chinese descent, that's right, but culture in Hong Kong developped different from mainland China over 150 years. It has become an Eastern-Western mix due to the British influence. During that time the political system was also different (British administration) and even after 1997 when Hong Kong was transferred to China it got a different system ("one country, two systems"-policy). So classifying Hong Kong purely as Chinese would be narrow-minded.

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i was a huge fan of Bruce Lee and Chinese movies (except Crouching Tiger where they fly and shit) but it seems to me that Bruce Lee's conditioning and martial arts knowledge is the exception rather then the norm in China.
Well, that shouldn't be a surprise really. First of all, China is not Kung Fu movies (I guess the average US-American usually also doesn't spend his daily life in the way as in Hollywood action movies). Then, with a little glimpse on Chinese history one would know that during the period of the Chinese Cultural Revolution under Mao Zedong practicing martial arts was quite restricted and martial arts masters were suspected to be subversive against the government.

Also, telling to be (or have been) a huge fan of Bruce Lee you should know that he was that exceptional as a martial artist, because he went new ways and had different approaches than the traditional martial artists.
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Old 12-17-2010, 12:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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So classifying Hong Kong purely as Chinese would be narrow-minded.
no, its just default.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Does all of this matter??
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Does all of this matter??
exactly it doesnt matter at all.
trying to argue wether he lived in china or hong kong. its like me saying gsp didnt live in canada because hes from quebec which is culturally different from the english canada.

the only thing im concerned about is wether there will be any more top fighters from china and india, and i sure hope there would who could bring new styles and techniques to mma, but i havent seen it done yet, and their biggest star just lost.
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:34 PM   #16 (permalink)
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exactly it doesnt matter at all.
It might matter, because if you start to look at it a bit more differenciated, a side effect may be that you come to an explanation why China is not full of martial arts super heros as in Kung Fu movies like you expected and thus not flooding the MMA market with their topfighters.

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trying to argue wether he lived in china or hong kong. its like me saying gsp didnt live in canada because hes from quebec which is culturally different from the english canada.
No it's not. Québec clearly belongs to Canada according to international laws. St. Pierre and the other Québequois have Canadian passports, people from Hong Kong on the other hand didn't get Chinese passports during a period of more than 150 years, because Hong Kong belonged to Great Britain at that time (and that was the time when Bruce Lee lived, and had he lived in mainland China he probably would not have had the possibilities to evolve into the martial artist he was) and was therefore a different country.

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the only thing im concerned about is wether there will be any more top fighters from china and india, and i sure hope there would who could bring new styles and techniques to mma, but i havent seen it done yet, and their biggest star just lost.
If you are really concerned, you should deal a bit with the respective histories and cultures and not take anything by "default". I've already given some hints why to the present day we have not seen many fighters from "over there".
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Is he really the first Chinese person to get a purple belt in BJJ? I find that very hard to believe even though thats what it says on his wikipage. Does that mean there aren't any Chinese black belts?
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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does it really have anything to do with the discussion or with any of the posts?
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Does all of this matter??
This and this!

I agree with the OP, there's no way Zhang's getting cut, although it's not a good sign of hope for Dana and co. if he couldn't get through Downes ... wish him the best though. I'm certain they'll feed him a can first up to build him back up.
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Voiceless View Post
It might matter, because if you start to look at it a bit more differenciated, a side effect may be that you come to an explanation why China is not full of martial arts super heros as in Kung Fu movies like you expected and thus not flooding the MMA market with their topfighters.
No it's not. Québec clearly belongs to Canada according to international laws. St. Pierre and the other Québequois have Canadian passports, people from Hong Kong on the other hand didn't get Chinese passports during a period of more than 150 years, because Hong Kong belonged to Great Britain at that time (and that was the time when Bruce Lee lived, and had he lived in mainland China he probably would not have had the possibilities to evolve into the martial artist he was) and was therefore a different country.
If you are really concerned, you should deal a bit with the respective histories and cultures and not take anything by "default". I've already given some hints why to the present day we have not seen many fighters from "over there".
according to "international laws" it does belong to canada. but for a long time the french canadian quebec wanted to have their own autonomous country. you could even compare quebec to hong kong in terms of mma being only sanctioned in quebec and nowhere else in canada for awhile. gsp is canadian just like bruce lee is chinese. wether hes from hong kong or tibet doesnt matter. if Mongolian Wolf was able to practise mma and watch bruce lee tapes, no reason why the other billion people living in china cant.

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This and this!

I agree with the OP, there's no way Zhang's getting cut, although it's not a good sign of hope for Dana and co. if he couldn't get through Downes ... wish him the best though. I'm certain they'll feed him a can first up to build him back up.
QFT.

when i found out he lost to Downes i thought, well if they gave him a top guy like Pettis you could give him the benefit of the doubt, but he was probably handed the easiest fight on the card, and he lost a unan decision (30-27 according to a judge) so i really dont know what he can do in ufc. rematch with garza?
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Old 12-19-2010, 02:46 PM   #20 (permalink)
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does it really have anything to do with the discussion or with any of the posts?

every major country has little countries running around looking for autonomy. not classifying hong kong as chinese is completely pointless.



the americans didnt accept him because he was asian, the chinese didnt accept him because he wasnt %100 chinese. and thats a fact.
Considering the cultures are radically different? No it isn't pointless.

You said the Wolf was the Bruce Lee of China. Which is inaccurate. Bruce Lee was a huge star in Hong Kong, a place that combined Western Civilization and East. The Chinese were traditional and he's not a huge deal there.

Last edited by Roflcopter : 12-19-2010 at 02:51 PM.
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