Nate Diaz talks wrestling and scoring in MMA: "Less fighting will win you the round" - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Nate Diaz talks wrestling and scoring in MMA: "Less fighting will win you the round"

"Sometimes it comes down to less fighting will win you the round. Sometimes maybe we need to fight less to win the round."

"There’s round-winners and there’s fighters. You know, but in order to be a good UFC fighter or cage fighter I guess I’ve got to learn how to win the rounds. You’ve got to not fight. That’s what I’m saying. You’ve got to score. Apparently I’ve got to grab him and hold him, otherwise he’ll just grab and hold me."

"Everybody is like, ‘you need to work on your wrestling'. Maybe I don’t need to work on my wrestling. Maybe I just need to do the wrestling and not the fighting."

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/1/15...n-mma#comments
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I really don't want to get sucked into the discussion that will surely start right after my post, so I'll just say that I agree with his overall idea.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Ive said this before and ill say it again: if you dont like the "boring wrestlers" who "control the fight to a decision", there are 5 things you can do about it:

1. Strike the guy on top of you from the bottom (A.Silva is very good at this with his elbows and body triangle)

2. Submit the guy from your guard (many guys are capable of this)

3. Stand up to get the fight back on the feet (Chuck Liddell and BJ Penn are very good at this)

4. Sweep the guy from the bottom so that you get on top of him

5. DONT GET TAKEN DOWN IN THE FIRST PLACE

If you're not capable of doing any of these five things as a fighter, then quite frankly you dont deserve to win and you really need to stop crying about it. I have no respect for guys like Nate Diaz who complain about wrestling and actually find it quite humorous that he considers taking somebody down and punching them in the face to be "not fighting".
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I think bouts should be scored the same way as TUF, first to win two rounds wins, 3rd round is only necessary if it's 1-1 after the first two. This will inspire aggression because you have less time to impose your will and if it goes to the 3rd, you know you've lost a round and need to pull it back.

Title fights/Main events will be first to win 3, so that's a possible 5 rounds. If fighters can guage what's going on on the scorecards a bit, they won't coast a fight and then moan about the verdict afterwards so often. If it goes to 3rd, 4th, 5th rounds, they know the fights is scored evenly and they need to do something to tilt it in their favour.

This may seem like it'll still aid point scoring type fighters, but it'll add a small feeling of urgency right from the beginning, which will make things happen. Only thing I can think of until a complete good set of judges is in place.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Ok, I said I didn't want to get sucked into the discussion... oh, what the hell...

I think they should announce the scorecards after every round like they do in boxing and kickboxing.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SM33 View Post
I think bouts should be scored the same way as TUF, first to win two rounds wins, 3rd round is only necessary if it's 1-1 after the first two. This will inspire aggression because you have less time to impose your will and if it goes to the 3rd, you know you've lost a round and need to pull it back.

Title fights/Main events will be first to win 3, so that's a possible 5 rounds. If fighters can guage what's going on on the scorecards a bit, they won't coast a fight and then moan about the verdict afterwards so often. If it goes to 3rd, 4th, 5th rounds, they know the fights is scored evenly and they need to do something to tilt it in their favour.

This may seem like it'll still aid point scoring type fighters, but it'll add a small feeling of urgency right from the beginning, which will make things happen. Only thing I can think of until a complete good set of judges is in place.
Thats actually a great idea IMO. This would really encourage aggression and fighters really going for it.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I can't stand the general attitude of the Diaz brothers. All this shit talking and street mentality just pisses me off. I know too many people like this in the real world who are full of attitude and mouth, the only difference is the Diaz brothers can and will fight you.

Nate has good boxing, a good guard and overall ground game. However he neglects 2 things when it comes to fighting (or at least it appears so).

Wrestling

Weight training - For size, power and explosiveness.

You need both to be a top level fighter.

Taking someone down at will and controlling them is a part of fighting.

It is quite pathetic and whiney to complain about an aspect of the sport. If you don't like it, then try another sport for f***s sake.

Does Shaq complain about having to shoot free throws?

Do sprinters complain that they have to start on running blocks?

Do goalkeeps complain that they can't use their hands outside the box?

The same rules apply to everyone. If you can't wrestle, then learn, if you can't learn, then don't fight.

Wrestling is the oldest combat sport in recorded history. It is a legitimate way to win a fight.

Can mods please just delete any new "wrestling sucks and is for pussies" threads, cos I am sick to death of reading them.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brydon View Post
I can't stand the general attitude of the Diaz brothers. All this shit talking and street mentality just pisses me off. I know too many people like this in the real world who are full of attitude and mouth, the only difference is the Diaz brothers can and will fight you.

Nate has good boxing, a good guard and overall ground game. However he neglects 2 things when it comes to fighting (or at least it appears so).

Wrestling

Weight training - For size, power and explosiveness.

You need both to be a top level fighter.

Taking someone down at will and controlling them is a part of fighting.

It is quite pathetic and whiney to complain about an aspect of the sport. If you don't like it, then try another sport for f***s sake.

Does Shaq complain about having to shoot free throws?

Do sprinters complain that they have to start on running blocks?

Do goalkeeps complain that they can't use their hands outside the box?

The same rules apply to everyone. If you can't wrestle, then learn, if you can't learn, then don't fight.

Wrestling is the oldest combat sport in recorded history. It is a legitimate way to win a fight.

Can mods please just delete any new "wrestling sucks and is for pussies" threads, cos I am sick to death of reading them.
Jesus titty ******* christ.


You know whats worse than a complainer? A complainer that complains about the complainers.

Nate brings up some legitimate points on how the judging in MMA is scored. Far too much emphasis on cage control rather than damage.

A perfect example is Nick Lentz vs Andre Winner. Andre won the fight.

As far as i'm concerned, holding some one against a cage or holding some one down on the ground, just holding them is NOT FIGHTING.

And those are actually some of the worst comparisons i've ever seen.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It's one thing if the UFC would stand up fighters more often like Pride, or atleast issue yellow cards, but they'll let a wrestler void a entire 3 round fight and do jack about it. Great you got the takedown (I love a good takedown, score them for it), but you punched him once in 3 minutes, have a cookie, and no points. I hope they adopt pride rules in this aspect soon.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SM33 View Post
I think bouts should be scored the same way as TUF, first to win two rounds wins, 3rd round is only necessary if it's 1-1 after the first two. This will inspire aggression because you have less time to impose your will and if it goes to the 3rd, you know you've lost a round and need to pull it back.

Title fights/Main events will be first to win 3, so that's a possible 5 rounds. If fighters can guage what's going on on the scorecards a bit, they won't coast a fight and then moan about the verdict afterwards so often. If it goes to 3rd, 4th, 5th rounds, they know the fights is scored evenly and they need to do something to tilt it in their favour.

This may seem like it'll still aid point scoring type fighters, but it'll add a small feeling of urgency right from the beginning, which will make things happen. Only thing I can think of until a complete good set of judges is in place.
I disagree a lot.

There are a lot of situations were a fighter lost the first 2 roundsand came back and won the fight.
Rory MacDonald vs Carlos Condit come first to my mind because i've discussed this fight earlier today.
Anderson vs Sonnen is another example.

I am more in the favour of the refferees announcing the score after each round.

This way, a fighter knows if he is down on points, and he has to risk it, in order to win. And the other way arround.

There were a lot of fights when fighters/fans had an idea of who the winner is and in fact it was the other wau arround. Short: BS decisions.

Knowing if you're ahead or down on points would help raise the aggression level in a fight.
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