Did Jones get the easiest road to a justified title shot? - Page 3 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:17 PM   #21 (permalink)
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There are guys that have had much easier roads to the title. Jones hasnt beaten a top five fighter, but he beat Bader who had a legit claim to the top ten and he completely dominated Matt Hamill, he just made a stupid mistake and got DQ'ed for it. No one has come close to making Hamill or Vera look as bad as Jones did. Im not even really a Jones fan, I just think he has fought some tough and game opponents.
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:41 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Jones (Beat Bader, Vera, Matyushenko 6-1 in UFC) earned his shot more than...

Brock Lesnar (Beat Heath Herring 1-1 in UFC)
Matt Serra (beat Chris Lytle and won TUF 5-4 in UFC)
Dan Hardy (Beat Mike Swick 4-0 in UFC, 3 decisions)
Shogun Rua (Beat the geriatric ward of UFC in Chuck Liddell and Mark Coleman 2-1 in UFC)
Forrest Griffin (Beat Hector Ramerez and Shogun who was coming off knee surgery 6-2 in UFC)
Randy Couture (Came out of retirement after a loss 11-5 in UFC)
Anderson Silva (Beat Chris Leben 1-0 in UFC)
Travis Lutter (Beat Patrick Cote and won TUF 2-2 in UFC)
and the list goes on and on.


I think UFC is getting to a point where fighters almost have to go on 10 fight win streaks to even get a title shot unless they are somehow tapped by the marketing blitz. Look at guys like Sotiropoulos, JDS, Jim Miller, Fitch and Jon Jones.

Go back and look at anyones record just 3 or 4 years ago and you would see that by 6-1 (Jones) in the UFC it would have been insane for them to NOT have a title shot, much less 8-1 (Miller) or 7-0 (Soti), regardless of the chumps the beat.
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:51 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SideWays222 View Post
Not hating on Jones because what the kid has accomplished and whom he has beaten at age 23 is just amazing. And he has no say in what path he takes to a title shot. That said...

Fighting in the TOUGHEST division in the UFC. Jones has had a pretty easy road to a title shot. The reason i say this is because the kid has not had even 1 A level opponent. Brandon Vera or possibly Bader(I still have a tough time rating him) are the toughest guys he has fought. And neither of them are even bad A level fighters they are both at best GOOD B level fighters. And it isnt that the LHW division lacks A class fighters. We have

Shogun
Rashad
Rampage
Thiago
Machida
Franklin
Forrest
Randy Couture

All proven A level opponents. Rich or Thiago possibly being in the weaker portion of the Elite. Not too long ago i would laugh if someone said that you dont have to fight any of those guys to get a title shot. So how does a guy have 7 fights, 7 wins (ignore hamill loss) but all against bad-avereage B level fighters and Bader who hasnt fought any A level fighters either.
Did Jones luck out due to the timing of the other fighters?? By that i mean the other fighters are either busy having fights scheduled or injured. Or did the UFC purposely avoid putting Jones in there with someone of the Elite status?? I imagine Win or Lose against Shogun. They are going to start feeding Jones to the wolves. (Or more likely is that Jones is the wolf )
I dont think someone is going to get a title shot without having atleast 1 or 2 Elite wins for a long time. Even Randy Couture who has his title shots gifted to him normally is stuck going through these guys.

I salute you Jones! You are special in many ways.

Off to bed. Looking forward to reading your guys opinions.

Also curious. Does anyone put Bader in the same class as the rest of those guys i mentioned?? And if you do tell me why?? If you look at the list of his opponents you will see he has no Elite wins either. So i really am curious how you would justify it.

Alrighty. Im off to bed. Night guys.

i disagree.

i equate what he has done to sports in general.

in football, we hear nay-sayers complain all the time:
'look at the weak teams they beat'.. etc.

He can only fight who the UFC puts in front of him.

Before Saturday night, i also had doubts about Jones.
But after thoroughly analyzing his fight, i still have doubts, but have more respect then ever.

If you listen to him and his corner's interaction in-between rounds.. dude is respectful. He uses 'sir' when speaking. That's humility!

I hope he does well.. but i think he will hit a roadblock when he meets up with Shogun.
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
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People put to much emphasis on the road to the title. He may have had an easier road to the title shot than some...but he will be facing a better champion than most.

A title shot is just another match that you arent the champion.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:40 PM   #25 (permalink)
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true... but still, Edgars 3 opponents before fighting Penn are no better or worse than Bones last 3. Its the way Edgar beat them that got him the shot. Just like Bones.

I guess what I'm saying is that beating a few top 10 guys has never been a pre-requisite for getting awarded a shot in the UFC. It never has been. Hell, Dana admits this regularly.
But you also cant compare those weight classes to LHW. They dont have nearly the quantity of high caliber fighters that LHW does. I would certainly imagine that you get a title shot in those weigh classes easier.


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Originally Posted by RudeBoySes View Post
i disagree.

i equate what he has done to sports in general.

in football, we hear nay-sayers complain all the time:
'look at the weak teams they beat'.. etc.

He can only fight who the UFC puts in front of him.

Before Saturday night, i also had doubts about Jones.
But after thoroughly analyzing his fight, i still have doubts, but have more respect then ever.

If you listen to him and his corner's interaction in-between rounds.. dude is respectful. He uses 'sir' when speaking. That's humility!

I hope he does well.. but i think he will hit a roadblock when he meets up with Shogun.
Im not sure why u disagree since we believe the same thing. I even pointed out in the first statement that it isnt JBJ choice who he fights. He just fights who they tell him to...
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:48 PM   #26 (permalink)
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The only thing that worries me about Jones' rise to fame was that he was set up with wrestler after wrestler after wrestler. The only good striker he faced was a guy who can't pull the trigger anymore. Other than that everyone else he has faced has had pretty mediocre or terrible striking. Sure, he's a great wrestler and has great top control, but I'm not impressed with his striking or submission game. He does have submissions but they are mostly set up with his control and strikes from the top position. His long limbs also allow him to use submissions that aren't seen as often, his go-to sub is usually the D'Arce.

I'm a fan of Jones but I would have liked him to face a legit striker or at least a single A-lister before getting a title shot.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:13 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Rua beat Coleman and Liddell for his shot, it doesn't get much easier than that. That was the easiest road to the title.

As for who Jones beat, well Griffin and Evans wouldn't fight him. Rampage is to fat to fight, Silva is coming off a win over Brendan Vera, Big Nog lost two fights in a row to Brilz and Bader. So with Franklin's loss their really was no one else to give the shot to.

Besides I think the B-list guys in the 205(Bader, Davis, Gustfferson, Hamill) are much more talented a tougher than the older main event guys and it's a shame they have to go through each other.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:21 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Rua beat Coleman and Liddell for his shot, it doesn't get much easier than that. That was the easiest road to the title.

As for who Jones beat, well Griffin and Evans wouldn't fight him. Rampage is to fat to fight, Silva is coming off a win over Brendan Vera, Big Nog lost two fights in a row to Brilz and Bader. So with Franklin's loss their really was no one else to give the shot to.

Besides I think the B-list guys in the 205(Bader, Davis, Gustfferson, Hamill) are much more talented a tougher than the older main event guys and it's a shame they have to go through each other.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:59 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Why are you guys comparing Jones to the likes of Shogun?? or Frankie or whoever??

Alot of those guys have title shots that are not really justified. Which i made sure to point out Jones title shot is. And guys like Rua didnt get their title shots because of beating Chuck Liddel, they got their title shot because of the accomplishments they had in other orgenizations such as Pride. A company that the UFC bought and owned. So comparing what Shogun did and Jones did is absurd. Jones is a complete newbi heading into the UFC.
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:08 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SideWays222 View Post
But you also cant compare those weight classes to LHW. They dont have nearly the quantity of high caliber fighters that LHW does. I would certainly imagine that you get a title shot in those weigh classes easier.
LHW is basically equivalent to MW now for talent depth. LW and WW are by far the most stacked divisions in the UFC. Look at Edgar's entire record he had 6 quality wins in the UFC before he got a title shot and beat Jim Miller right before coming to the UFC. Maynard also had 6 quality wins before his title shot. Kenny had 4 before his second title shot. BJ was an understandable exception to that because of his history of dominance within the weight class and the title having been stripped from Sherk. Diego is really the only guy who got fast tracked to a title shot.

Bones has 4(should be 5 the hamill dq was bullshit) quality wins at LHW in the UFC. That is enough to warrant a title shot.
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