Mixed Martial Arts Forum banner

Did Jones get the easiest road to a justified title shot?

3K views 40 replies 28 participants last post by  Machida Karate 
#1 · (Edited)
Not hating on Jones because what the kid has accomplished and whom he has beaten at age 23 is just amazing. And he has no say in what path he takes to a title shot. That said...

Fighting in the TOUGHEST division in the UFC. Jones has had a pretty easy road to a title shot. The reason i say this is because the kid has not had even 1 A level opponent. Brandon Vera or possibly Bader(I still have a tough time rating him) are the toughest guys he has fought. And neither of them are even bad A level fighters they are both at best GOOD B level fighters. And it isnt that the LHW division lacks A class fighters. We have

Shogun
Rashad
Rampage
Thiago
Machida
Franklin
Forrest
Randy Couture

All proven A level opponents. Rich or Thiago possibly being in the weaker portion of the Elite. Not too long ago i would laugh if someone said that you dont have to fight any of those guys to get a title shot. So how does a guy have 7 fights, 7 wins (ignore hamill loss) but all against bad-avereage B level fighters and Bader who hasnt fought any A level fighters either.
Did Jones luck out due to the timing of the other fighters?? By that i mean the other fighters are either busy having fights scheduled or injured. Or did the UFC purposely avoid putting Jones in there with someone of the Elite status?? I imagine Win or Lose against Shogun. They are going to start feeding Jones to the wolves. (Or more likely is that Jones is the wolf :) )
I dont think someone is going to get a title shot without having atleast 1 or 2 Elite wins for a long time. Even Randy Couture who has his title shots gifted to him normally is stuck going through these guys.

I salute you Jones! You are special in many ways. :fight01: :winner01: :thumb04:

Off to bed. Looking forward to reading your guys opinions.

Also curious. Does anyone put Bader in the same class as the rest of those guys i mentioned?? And if you do tell me why?? If you look at the list of his opponents you will see he has no Elite wins either. So i really am curious how you would justify it.

Alrighty. Im off to bed. Night guys.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I wouldn't say Thiago is on the weaker side of the scale of LHW elites by a long shot, he has lost to Machida and Rashad and there is no shame in that especially because he was carrying a back problem for the latter and couldn't train properly.

Jones beat who was in front of him. I would say only Miller(LW) deserves a title shot more in the UFC right now especially with his record.

I mean Jones hasn't had to fight a Rampage or a Machida yet but I believe that the win of Bader was pushing him to that level of challenge next. Just so happens that everybody is either tied up or injured who could be ranked higher than Jones in the LHW division.

Rampage turned the opportunity down and that's a smart move on his part as trying to make weight and have a good training camp bringing him in at 100% in time for a fight he is close to anyway seems like an unnecessary risk.
 
#3 ·
Very interesting thread, I look at it like this...


Jones is a very talented, young and upcoming fighter. I think his road has not been easy, considering his career of training/fighting has span just over three short years.

Yes, his opponents were't A/B level and yes, I think it's an easier route. I think we have a very BIG exception to all rules here.

I believe Dana sees something very special in Jones and wants to see if he can rise to the occasion.

Rampage declined the chance due to short notice (which I thought was a very smart move), he'll get a shot soon.

I personally think Jones should have had to fight Rampage/Thiago or Randy/Forrest (I leave Machida out because he's on a losing streak).

I think it's too soon for Jones and Shogun is going to teach him a very dear lesson in Muay Thai with brutal leg kicks and a flurry of big punches that ends in either TKO or a submission when he drops Jones to the ground.


Jones will be a champ one day, he'll have to take some big lumps to earn it though!

:thumbsup:
 
#4 ·
I think he got a bit of an easy way to a title shot. I mean he beat Gusmao, Bonnar who is tough but not a top fighter, Brandon Vera who has been cut by the UFC, Jake O'brien who is again tough but nowhere near the top, Vladimir Matyushenko who is not the same fighter he was back in the past, and then a tough prospect in Bader.

Don't get me wrong, Jones is one hell of a talented fighter, but I think he should have faced at least 1 top fighter before getting a title shot.
 
#5 ·
He had a pretty easy road it's true, but at the same time, everyone recognizes his potential, I don't think you will find too many people who will complain about his easy (relatively) road. I definitely would like to see him fight someone on that list before he fights for the title, but I don't care that much, I'm quite sure he would get a shot eventually either way.

Besides, who else could you give it too? Machida coming off a loss, Rampage turned it down, Rashad injured, Couture is too old, Franklin lost, Thiago Silva had a decent win, but just hasn't been that impressive. Griffin would be the most likely candidate for me, especially since his previous win over Shogun would make a nice back story, it might have made more sense to give him a shot and make JBJ fight one of the others, but I can live with Jones getting the shot instead.

Now the kid really gets to sink or swim.
 
#6 ·
I think it's par the course, as far as the UFC goes. Many of the contenders/champions got seemingly undeserved shots.

Rua got his shot after beating a washed up chuck.

Edgar got his shot before Maynard. after losing thier first fight he beat 3 ok-ish fighters to line up Penn.

Sanchez?

Lesnar?... 3 times!

Hardy? beat 1 top 15 guy only.

Cote? ummm

Leites? Gets battered by Marquart and won via fouls.

It goes on...
 
#7 ·
I agree whole heartidly with your list with exception of Rua.... he's the best LHW in the world and PRIDE proved that. He didn't have a great start in UFC, but he was also injured and never did the proper path to rehabilitation to be 100% again.
 
#13 ·
Hey Limba, I was thinking of a comparison with Jones and Brock the other day....

I believe both got early shots due to their athleticism, potential and just freakish ability in the ring for such a small time in MMA.

The one glaring hole in both guys games are this: Striking

Both need to turn it up to the next level, then I see Jones and Lesnar almost unstoppable in the coming future.

:thumb02:
 
#15 ·
Comm'on man!
Don't go there too!

Jones' skill set is miles ahead of Lesnar's.

1. Stop comparing Jones' striking to Lesnar's non-existant striking. The one thing i agree is that both use their striking to set up their TDs.
Jones has more than decent striking. He's a dynamic striker, who comes from different angles. Has very good cage movement. And, on top of that, add to that his spinning elbows and all the other flashy thing he pulls on the feet.
What can Brock do on the feet, apart from rushing towatds his opponent to take him down?! Lesnar's striking/stand-up game is almost non existant.

2. Lesnar got his title shot while having a 1-1 record in the UFC. With a win over Herring! And Herring hasn't fought anyone since that fight!

Jones is getting his, having a 12-1 record, 6-1 in the UFC, with 4 stoppages. And we all know what happened in the Hammill fight. He should have been 13-0/7-0 in the UFC.
(but that's another story)

3. Jones' wrestling is completely different than Lesnar's.

The fact that he got this title shot - with Evans hurt - doesn't support a comparison between him and Brock Lesnar.

As far as talent, skill-set, evolution as a fighter - Jones is nothing like Lesnar.
 
#14 ·
The easiest justified shot? Yeah when your in 205 and you don't fight any of the guys Sideways listed it's hard to say you deserved it, LHW has always imo been the most stacked division. But the most important thing is he didn't get the shot because Dana thought he deserved it, he got it because Rashad Evans got hurt.

I don't think Bader is in that class yet, he's still a young fighter the only guy on the list I would say Bader is near is Thiago Silva due to the fact Thiago doesn't have alot of marquee victories. His two biggest fights against Evans and Lyoto he lost. If Thiago loses to Rampage a Thiago-Bader fight makes sense to me.
 
#16 ·
I agree he didn't have to fight an elite A level fighter to get his title shot but I am pretty sure if Rashad didn't get hurt or Rampage accepted the fight they would have given Jones someone like Forrest or Thiago Silva to fight next. But because of the circumstances he was their best option.
 
  • Like
Reactions: limba
#19 ·
The similarities between Jones and Lesnar are undeniable; groundfighters, poor striking, not long training MMA, biggest fighters in their divisions without being slow, lots and lots of hype.

I don't like Jones' chances against Rua but win or lose he's going to be/already is a big concern in MMA and will improve massively. This is where he differs from Lesnar, who seems to be too involved with the business side of things and doesn't actually spar in training.

On topic though, Jones really could have done with fighting a current or past Top 5 fighter before the title shot, but all the other fighter's situations combined makes him the best option right now. Some good hard Brazillian leg kicks will do him good before he gets too ahead of himself anyway.
 
#21 ·
There are guys that have had much easier roads to the title. Jones hasnt beaten a top five fighter, but he beat Bader who had a legit claim to the top ten and he completely dominated Matt Hamill, he just made a stupid mistake and got DQ'ed for it. No one has come close to making Hamill or Vera look as bad as Jones did. Im not even really a Jones fan, I just think he has fought some tough and game opponents.
 
#22 ·
Jones (Beat Bader, Vera, Matyushenko 6-1 in UFC) earned his shot more than...

Brock Lesnar (Beat Heath Herring 1-1 in UFC)
Matt Serra (beat Chris Lytle and won TUF 5-4 in UFC)
Dan Hardy (Beat Mike Swick 4-0 in UFC, 3 decisions)
Shogun Rua (Beat the geriatric ward of UFC in Chuck Liddell and Mark Coleman 2-1 in UFC)
Forrest Griffin (Beat Hector Ramerez and Shogun who was coming off knee surgery 6-2 in UFC)
Randy Couture (Came out of retirement after a loss 11-5 in UFC)
Anderson Silva (Beat Chris Leben 1-0 in UFC)
Travis Lutter (Beat Patrick Cote and won TUF 2-2 in UFC)
and the list goes on and on.


I think UFC is getting to a point where fighters almost have to go on 10 fight win streaks to even get a title shot unless they are somehow tapped by the marketing blitz. Look at guys like Sotiropoulos, JDS, Jim Miller, Fitch and Jon Jones.

Go back and look at anyones record just 3 or 4 years ago and you would see that by 6-1 (Jones) in the UFC it would have been insane for them to NOT have a title shot, much less 8-1 (Miller) or 7-0 (Soti), regardless of the chumps the beat.
 
#23 ·
i disagree.

i equate what he has done to sports in general.

in football, we hear nay-sayers complain all the time:
'look at the weak teams they beat'.. etc.

He can only fight who the UFC puts in front of him.

Before Saturday night, i also had doubts about Jones.
But after thoroughly analyzing his fight, i still have doubts, but have more respect then ever.

If you listen to him and his corner's interaction in-between rounds.. dude is respectful. He uses 'sir' when speaking. That's humility!

I hope he does well.. but i think he will hit a roadblock when he meets up with Shogun.
 
#26 ·
The only thing that worries me about Jones' rise to fame was that he was set up with wrestler after wrestler after wrestler. The only good striker he faced was a guy who can't pull the trigger anymore. Other than that everyone else he has faced has had pretty mediocre or terrible striking. Sure, he's a great wrestler and has great top control, but I'm not impressed with his striking or submission game. He does have submissions but they are mostly set up with his control and strikes from the top position. His long limbs also allow him to use submissions that aren't seen as often, his go-to sub is usually the D'Arce.

I'm a fan of Jones but I would have liked him to face a legit striker or at least a single A-lister before getting a title shot.
 
#27 ·
Rua beat Coleman and Liddell for his shot, it doesn't get much easier than that. That was the easiest road to the title.

As for who Jones beat, well Griffin and Evans wouldn't fight him. Rampage is to fat to fight, Silva is coming off a win over Brendan Vera, Big Nog lost two fights in a row to Brilz and Bader. So with Franklin's loss their really was no one else to give the shot to.

Besides I think the B-list guys in the 205(Bader, Davis, Gustfferson, Hamill) are much more talented a tougher than the older main event guys and it's a shame they have to go through each other.
 
#29 ·
Why are you guys comparing Jones to the likes of Shogun?? or Frankie or whoever??

Alot of those guys have title shots that are not really justified. Which i made sure to point out Jones title shot is. And guys like Rua didnt get their title shots because of beating Chuck Liddel, they got their title shot because of the accomplishments they had in other orgenizations such as Pride. A company that the UFC bought and owned. So comparing what Shogun did and Jones did is absurd. Jones is a complete newbi heading into the UFC.
 
#35 ·
Yeah WW sucks. There's about 5 good fighters than a huge drop off.

Thiago Silva isn't even top 5 and a lot of people think he can beat Rampage.


That said, people are forgetting that Forrest essentially drew with Tito, beat Hector Ramirez(who?) and choked out an out of shape Shogun before he got his title shot, in between being stopped by Keith Jardine.

Jones actually beat some top 25 and top 10 fighters in Vera, Matyushenko and Bader.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Easy road??? Get the **** out of here.

How is Ryan Bader not a top 8 guy? Ryan Bader beat Nogueira, who has arguably THE sharpest ground game in MMA.

Not only did Bones out grapple Bader (who Nog couldn't submit), he dominated him and finished him off.

If theres any other LHW that deserves a title over Jones, please tell me...
 
#39 ·
Well with this whole special case with Rashad Evans i think its obvious he got one of the easiest routs to a title shot, i mean thinking about all the wins Machida had to get to get there and the Talent was pretty intense.

But i think its justified seeing how each time they raise the bar JBJ doesn't only deliver but shows NO LIMIT.... Its scary seeing how he could just MAN HANDLE someone as strong of a wrestler as Bader, when really all people talk about JBJ is his crazy unorthodox striking.

This kid is limitless and will take the Title from Shogun at the age of 23 almost 24, and thats just amazing....

Its going be a close and amazing fight though, but if i still see no Limit and JBJ somehow just takes Shogun down and pounds on him round after round till Shogun gets subbed like Forrest did but without the SHogun beat down, then im going to just shit myself.
 
#40 ·
doesnt matter if his road was easy or not(and it wasnt), if(when) he walks out the champion next month it will be totally justified.

Jones has made world class wrestlers look like children compare to him, what could shogun possible do to stop him? Am a big Shogun fan too, am actually wearing his T-Shirt right now lol, but Jones is a monster, he is the new breed and i just cant see any LHW beating him in the near future. People always forget that he has only been training MMA for 3 years, he isnt even close to hitting his peak yet, just think about that for moment.
 
#41 ·
Exactly, thats why i think all this Anderson Silva vs JBJ is kinda silly right now, its hard to put a limit on the kid but his whole experience on training MMA has been so short, and he has done so much and still showed no limits.

ANd the only fighter i could see beating Shogun from the beginning was a strong wrestler, and when i saw the way JBJ man handled Bader, a WAY better wrestler then Shogun, i knew he could pull out a win over him.

But Anderson just has WAY to much experience for someone only training for 3 years +.

But give the kid a couple more years to fill in his whole striking game and head movement / Sub defense and i dont see many people being a big threat to this kid...

I wish Jose Aldo was a bigger guy... I would love to see someone like Jose Aldo that make me tear up from how beautiful there timing is on all there strikes.

JBJ against someone like Jose Aldo hast to take them down to the ground before Jose makes your leg look like its been replaced with a elephants
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top